Malon topic, Yeah.

Oh, no worries. I agree with you. People shouldn't knock a character just because of their relationship preferences. You can dislike a certain pairing and still like a certain character. And even if you don't like the character you can state it in a more discreet fashion so as not to offend those that do like the character.

There's really no valid reason to hate her. I mean so what if some Zelda fans prefer Link with her than Zelda? That's certainly no reason to hate her. Just enjoy what you enjoy and give that same courtesy to other people who enjoy something different without the senseless bashing. It just gets people riled up and really it's a waste of time.

And I'll get off my soapbox.

Oh and Twilight Mistress, I wasn't trying to single you out or anything. I was responding to part of your post and then started speaking in general terms. If it feels that way, my apologies.

I'm not going to lie and say I like Malon, but bashing is different matter.

Generally, rather than just saying I dislike someone in a game, I like to at least take the time to intelligently explain out what I don't like about that character. At least then people who disagree can refute it. Isn't that what's gone on in the Zelda vs Malon thread?

Zelinklover, please keep the Malon bashing to a minimum. There are people around here who like her character. If you would like to give reasons for disliking her so it can be discussed, that's a different matter. But the blatant bashing really isn't acceptable.

Personally, I don't particuarly like or hate Malon. I just didn't feel she was fleshed out enough to feel either way about her.

And that very aspect lends it itself to her being placed in relationships better. People imagine Link in so many different ways, and they can equally do that with Malon without terribly breaking canon. Zelda on the other hand is a different matter: her character is set and less malleable.

You know, Saami and TM brought up a good point: they feel that liking a pairing and a character are two seperate points. For discussion's sake, I don't think it's that cut and dried. What if you dislike a character partially because they are competition? They exist as an alternate avenue or a temptation to sway the lover away from his beloved. Take Cremia with Anju/Kafei in MM. She may be a likable person, but I never liked the part of her that angsted over wanting Kafei when Kafei so clearly belonged to Anju. Partially because I saw it as a manifestation of selfishness...Kafei wanted Anju, yet Cremia couldn't let it go, she wanted him so she wouldn't be alone. ( She's very human in this )

I guess I feel similarly with Zelda and Link..I see them as two people who are meant for each other, yet Malon functions as temptation. She's not bound by duty and protocol, so she can follow her heart and pursue Link as much as she wants. She's free to make her life what she wants it to be, so she may look like a better option. But any resentment I feel at her is more resentment at circumstance than directly at her.

Also, without getting into a feminist rant: some part of me dislikes seeing a man given so many options without competition. All are desirable, beautiful women, yet they get pitted against each other for one man in debates...it never seems to come up that Link's not going to be alone in wanting these girls.

I think it has partially to do with the fact that there really aren't many prominent guys besides Link in the games, unless you want to ship Ganondorf with Zelda or Malon. (I myself am a Mido/Saria shipper, but that's off-topic.)

Oh so am I, and I also love Komali and Medli. I wonder why we don't see many young men in the games...Shad was a good addition to TP, but he wasn't really competition...he was the geeky scholar vs Link's manly sword-fighting, damsel rescuing type.
Are the creator's afraid that other men will make Link look bad? or take the focus off of Link? It's happened to a certain degree with Zelda, she's the leading lady of the series but has to contend with the likes of Midna, Malon and Ilia in romance, popularity and screen time.

Leading lady she may be, but this isn't her story. Which is why she isn't only girl featured in the series IMO. We are following Link on his adventure and meeting the people he helps. Like I've mentioned before, for at least 95% of the game, we have no idea what Zelda is doing. At least not until she tells us what she's been up to.

As to why Link is really the only male in the franchise, I honestly don't know. Aside from providing competition like the other girls do for Zelda.

Plotwise, she's still often the most important character other than Link himself. I've always thought "the Legend of Zelda" referred to possibly her telling the story as a legend in the future ( like the prologue to MM ), or her key role in exposing the info Link needs to complete his task in many cases. And of course the literal AoL version, where the sleeping Zelda was a legend.

So yes, Link's the hero and main protagonist, but if LoZ has a main heroine, It's Zelda. I don't think she can be truthfully just tossed in with the other girls, she's something else entirely.

Zelda was the legend. But I think eventually, the title "Legend of Zelda" became just that, a title. We see and experience everything through Link's eyes. More often than not, the plot is Link's story that just so happens to involve Zelda as a significant person in the events of his adventure. As opposed to it being Zelda's story that just so happens to involve Link.

And I've never seen Zelda as any different from the other girls. And this applies to the Zeldas I actually like. Her role may or may not be more significant than the other girls and yet that in itself doesn't guarantee she has Link's affections, anymore than Ruto giving Link the Zora's Sapphire. And she openly admitted being attracted to him. And I'm pretty sure that until Link gets to know her, she's just another girl to him.

She's the Princess...I'm sure that in itself sets her apart in his mind. Access to her is exclusive, and she's beautiful and shows a shine that you can tell is only for him. In reality, how many of us would treat Prince William on the same level as the guy down the street? We'd have a certain amount of respect and awe for him to start out. In real life I've met a member of the British Royal Family, and I'm telling you...they have an aura, they stand out. Even if Link didn't remotely like her, I doubt he'd ever lump her in with Saria, Malon, Ilia etc.

I've always looked at LoZ as being Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf's stories, not solely Link's. Just because the other two don't make apperances as often doesn't make their impact and roles any less important. More often than not, Link's the one who's drawn into the story that's already begun - OoT he was drawn into the conflict begining between Zelda and Ganondorf, WW Ganondorf has started seeking the Triforce holders and Tetra crashes onto Link's island, drawing him into the story, TP Ganondorf & Zant have confronted Zelda and cast the curtain of Twilight over Hyrule which brings Link into the tale, and so on. If not for the other two, Link's story would not happen. It's just as much Zelda's tale as it is Link's- but by the POV we get, we are naturally going to be focused on Link the most.

As for why it's called LoZ, think about the position Zelda's in- she's royalty, she's going to make sure that the records are kept and stored for future generations. By virture of her position and importance, the records are going to last longer and not be forgotten the way tales told by common folk are. It's called Legend of Zelda because the royal family are the ones who make sure the tales are not forgotten. Think about history in RL- the ones who control history and make sure it's written and told are those in positions of power, rulers, presidents, and so forth.

Wow. I'm actually suprised by this statement. I've never considered Zelda roped in with the other girls at all. She's always stood away from the crowd, always different from the others, and I certainly don't think that Zelda is 'just another girl' to Link. The fact that she's a Princess already makes her different in his eyes, already sets her apart even before he gets to know her. Even if he never had romantic feelings for her, I can't see that Link would see her in the same category as girls like Malon and Ilia. The differences are just too staggering.

I definately don't think that Zelda can be tied in with the other girls, simply because of the bond that develops between her and Link during and after the alternate timeline. If anything, I think Zelda stands out the most because Link can empathize with her and relate to her in so many ways. She also displays a similar character; she's adventurous, couragous, and strong - if she didn't have any of those traits she surely wouldn't have placed herself in even more danger by lingering in Hyrule after its collapse; she could've left it to chance and have forgotten all about it. Thus it shows her loyalty as well. Also, in several of the Zelda games I think it's pretty clear of how Link feels about her. In OoT Ruto even accepts defeat when they're older because she knows that Link has feelings for Zelda. Another thing that a lot of people dismiss is the fact that Link remembers Zelda of all people in MM, which is significant because it shows that he is reminiscing about his last encounter with her, a sign that he misses her. If she was just another girl the ocarina would not hold the same value as it did, which was emphasized throughout the game because it was one of the key items you had to use to progress to the next levels. Like it would within literature, I believe that the ocarina, as Zelda had implied, was a symbol of the time that they had spent together in Hyrule; it was a token of what Link had left behind, reminding him of who was waiting for his return.

Another point that I would like to make out is that if she wasn't the dominant character, why would they use her in Super Smash Brothers and not the other girls? Obviously somewhere along the way Nintendo has made it clear in the Zelda games that Zelda herself is the main female character. And although such games may not seem to be canon with the storyline, don't forget that Nintendo would not publish or promote anything that would alter one's interpretation of the characters in the various games. Even the manga, for instance, points out the fact that there is something between Link and Zelda, otherwise it would not have been published as the "official" manga; again, they wouldn't want to ruin one's perception of the game. If they were worried that people would get the wrong impression from the manga, why make it official? It seems to me that Nintendo wants a certain message to be put across to fans, which is that even though you don't see something, doesn't mean that it's not there.

Also, in Majora's Mask, when Link remembers the Song of Time, the text that appears says, "This song, lingering on the edges of your mind, is a song of memories of Princess Zelda." So even the Song of Time has value to Link and Zelda.

Another song that I believe has value to Link and Zelda is Zelda's Lullaby, but that's another discussion.

Agreed. While I feel Malon and Link and the others can work beautifully in theory and with some imagination, Zelda and Link strikes me as what the game actually portrayed. ( barring the eliminated Saria of course ) It seems of all the people, the one who Link developed real depth with was Zelda, rather than Malon. I never saw their interaction mutually go below surface level whereas with Zelda, the language used is deep, emotionally strong. "I wanted to wait for you....", "I hoped that you would return.." etc.

That's exactly what I took out of that scene: the implication that Link misses her. I believe that the scene was designed to reflect that, whereas we never even got a hint that he missed Malon. Romani looked like Malon, but IMO when I was talking to her, I never thought of her as Malon...little quirks that make her her made her different enough. But the fact that Malon's "model" ( looks, similar life, perky personality ) can be used again so easily makes her seem common to me: there are many girls out there like her. With Zelda IMO, she's one of a kind no doubt, and irreplaceable in Link's heart.

I think that's missed alot. Zelda did say cleary..."Until that day..take this."
The assumption I usually see is that Link did not return to Hyrule, or would only value the Ocarina ( and her ) as something in his past while choosing to move on other things. ( Malon, through Romani/Cremia ) But why? Zelda was the one he remembered in the face of his impending death, implying her importance. Why would he just throw away something so special?

I don't think that's a fair point: she would likely make it based on a) her popularity and b ) mostly because she's the only one who can reasonably be shown fighting, without drastically altering a character. She's got the history where a character like Malon is defined by being passive and a side character. Marin, Ilia, and Medli have made it as trophies in these games though. Malon and Saria appear in the background montage introducing Link in Melee.

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but another tic against Malon is the fact that you meet her in Hyrule Market, meet she and Epona at Lon Lon ranch, fast forward seven years and then you rescue her ranch. That's ALL you do. In the mangas, Malon's role is even less - it even seems to confirm that Link's heart and mind are with Zelda all the time in the scene where Malon and Link are fighting of the Gerudo.

On another tangent, NO ONE can say that the mangas are not canon anymore, because as of this writing, the mangas are officially being translated into English and will be arriving in the US sometime in the Fall. For the mangas to be translated into English and shipped overseas means essentially that Nintendo has accepted them as canon. So there, manga-haters!

Back on topic: On the other hand, with Sheik/Zelda (how this relationship between those two people works is another can of worms and another thread ) and Link, they have been together for most of their adventures. In the game, Sheik is there every time you arrive at a new destination that was once beautiful when you were a child, but now that seven years have gone by, it is ruined. Sheik/Zelda offers an emotional support for Link whereas everyone else has booked it out of Ganondorf's way. Navi can only provide so much emotional support, but sometime along the line, Link is going to want another human being to talk things out with.

Malon does not provide any type of emotional support in the game or the manga. She and her family are just another group of people that need Link's effort in order to be rescued, and while she basically gives Epona to Link to use on his quest, can a horse compare to emotional support and encouragement? IMO, I would rather have a friend to rant to than a car to get me places.

So while Malon and Link might have very well had a fling and might have even had a love child (ANOTHER debate for another day), I think in the end that Zelda and Link ended up together.