Malon topic, Yeah.

I guess. But I'm still not convinced Link meant much to her...not when compared to Saria and Zelda.

That's the problem with the Zelda games..when it comes to romance, they are often vague..it's seldom blatant. If it's too blatant..I question it's seriousness. ( Cremia's hug )
Again, it's from reading between the lines that's where I get the romantic overtones. "I feel like I have known you forever...I will never forget the days we spent together"...that's romantic language. It's hard to nail it down as concretely romantic...but if there WAS a romantic relationship to be found...that'd be the most likely candidate. The other indicator is the depth of the emotion going on..if Link had a romantic relationship with either girl, I would think Zelda's is more likely based on the level they communicate on: intimate. We weren't even shown Malon post OoT: in OoT, it was superficial, IMO, and I have no reason to believe he would return to Zelda at the end of OoT, than do a 180 and develop a relationship with Malon instead. It doesn't make sense to this heart.

I can't say much to what you've said: other than that the life circumstances in Termina are drastically different from where Malon is sitting. Cremia and Romani have no father...and there are two of them. If you mean you feel life's circumstances have a hand in turning people into the person they are...I completely agree.
In Termina the circumstances are completely different from even Child Hyrule, so the people would be too.

It is really hard to nail down anything concrete. And that vagueness is part of the reason the LoZ series is so appealing, especially for shippers. Because of Malon and Link's relationship wasn't fully explored, all we can really do is speculate. The majority of my interpretations come from my observations coupled with other Malinkers interpretations in fanfiction. So it is all mainly fan speculation.

Though I find debating is fun. I've never been very good at it.

That's what I meant. Though we enter Termina in a time when disaster is about to strike. Since Termina was indirectly created about the same time as Hyrule, I'd imagine living there was peaceful until Skull Kid entered their world just like Hyrule was peaceful before Ganondorf got the Triforce.

The funny thing is, I feel OoT's ending was fairly concrete, as much as a Zelda game will ever be: the average person would either conclude or come to suspect Link and Zelda were romantically involved, or that interest was present. Why else would both the book and the manga so emphatically echo it? There's no question in either of who Link will choose.

However, I'd put it in the middle between WW ( pretty blatantly ZeLink ) and TP. ( not remotely..very vague. ) That doesn't stop people from speculating, and I suspect the dev's intend it this way. Why else give the player the option to say "Yes" to marrying Malon?
In terms of my personal interpretations, they came first from the game ( before ever coming on the internet ) and then the manga just confirmed it to me, along with the book. I do like fan fiction, but I find it difficult to find what I consider an accurate take on the game...one that I feel keeps Link and Zelda and all perfectly in character. That's why I usually stick to the published stuff.

It's hard to say...the timeframe for his interference confuses me...we seem to have legends dating back along way regarding his interference, yet some seems recent...I don't think Termina was ever completely peaceful, as neither was Hyrule. ( War during Link's birth, and the banishment of the Twili ) But as it appears to Cremia/Romani I suppose their life was relatively peaceful. But I still feel the different circumstances would cause them to be formed differently. I mean, Malon never had to deal with the death of her father and being left with a younger sister and ranch to run all by herself. Talon is fully alive throughout her childhood, and she has Ingo to run the physical side of things. Maybe at some point Cremia was carefree like Malon, but that's long gone. I don't expect her ( or Romani ) to respond to Link in the exact same way as Malon.

It's hard to say...the timeframe for his interference confuses me...we seem to have legends dating back along way regarding his interference, yet some seems recent...I don't think Termina was ever completely peaceful, as neither was Hyrule. ( War during Link's birth, and the banishment of the Twili ) But as it appears to Cremia/Romani I suppose their life was relatively peaceful. But I still feel the different circumstances would cause them to be formed differently. I mean, Malon never had to deal with the death of her father and being left with a younger sister and ranch to run all by herself. Talon is fully alive throughout her childhood, and she has Ingo to run the physical side of things. Maybe at some point Cremia was carefree like Malon, but that's long gone. I don't expect her ( or Romani ) to respond to Link in the exact same way as Malon.

I'd have to agree with you. I'm not very fond of people saying Cremia is basically Malon. Because honestly, if that were the case, I think there circumstances would be a bit more similar as opposed to Cremia have dead parents and a little sister and Malon having only a (presumed) dead mother and a living father. I think the only similarities that they actually had outside of their appearance was the fact that they lived on a ranch.

It more or less reminds me of Marin and how she resembles Zelda, and yet she is her own person.

In regards to their reactions to Link, I think Romani's reaction would be kind of similar to how Malon would've reacted, had Malon had a bit more character development. It may or may not have been the exact same way. But I'd think Malon would eventually start dropping hints that she was interested.

I will admit, Cremia did have more similarities to Malon in terms of personality and manner...but she's still different enough that it counts. I can't help thinking that the dev's made that clear. "You did it! you helped Cremia!" ( bold mine ) and Romani referring to herself constantly in the third person...it was to remind us they are different.

*edit because I wanted to redo my thoughts *

One thing that bugs me about Cremia often is how I've seen her hug ( and Link's reaction ) used as evidence that Link is really in love with Malon, or is belatedly realizing it through Cremia. I don't like this, because it strikes me as weak on several points. With Marin, we had good indications that Link HAD solid feelings for Zelda beforehand, but did it matter? Marin was different enough that he fell in love with her all over again: IMO, it would be folly to assume he'd head back to Hyrule and pick up with Zelda where he left off with Marin.
I'd be the same with Malon, but one thing to consider: we have no indication that Link returned Malon's affections to begin with ( rather the clues point towards Zelda )..so any relationship with Romani/Cremia stood on it's own. And the only thing that can be picked out as unquestionably boding positive is the hug...and it's pretty generic. Nothing I would call life-changing, merely he likes either the hug or Cremia, or maybe both. It's not a main theme of the game ( like Marin was ) nor is it remarked on later in the 3-day cycle or ending: it's essentially ignored.
But anyways, my point is that Cremia/Romani are not Malon, and romantic feelings for the one does not mean they will be automatically transferred. He'd have to end any relationship with Zelda ( Not likely, IMO ) and then re-develop them for Malon.

In terms of differences:
Hmm...I just feel Romani was more bold about it, and I prefer Malon for her politeness. If anything, I'd actually wonder if that bold approach would scare Link off...any young girl who's ever crushed on a boy might attest to that.
I also wonder if Romani's blatantness is in response to watching Cremia lose up against Anju...she makes it clear she empathizes with her older sister's heartache. By trying to take control ( "Hey, why don't you come live on the ranch with us?......so..then it's decided!" ) maybe she in her immature way is trying to ensure she doesn't end up in the same fate.
But true love sets free...Zelda sets Link free to return of his own free will, and I think he would.

I'm not offended at all. I know that we may be, in effect, grasping at straws. So I decided not to dwell too much on the canon "evidence" or the lack thereof. Otherwise, I'd think it would take the fun out of the ship itself. I simply defend my views and simply enjoy the possibly chemistry that existed between them. That Link may have sought comfort from the harshness of being the Hero in Malon's arms. That was something that started out as a simple friendship and may have progressed into something more. Maybe he didn't mean more than a friend to her at first. But I think that most certainly changed over time. For both of them.

The same way you believe Zelda sets Link free, I believe Malon does the same.

Ah: the benefit of the edit button. I was going over the last page and realized something: this original post was effectively going in circles. You know, when I read what you have to say in your post:

All I could think is, well...why would Malon be the one he chose to go farther with as opposed to Zelda? To me, it still makes no sense. I'm not a slave to what I feel is portrayed in game, but my heart gave an emphatic "yes" to Link and Zelda's relationship when I played the game. IMO, all Link could think of when he was returned to being a child was her..and that was why he went back to her when it was all over.
Trying to muddle over Link x Malon in my head just doesn't fit in that view... I feel to make it work, you have to pull Link out of character and change something fundamental. But as this is mainly a "I feel in my heart", I can't prove it nor prove you wrong. I think we are at an impasse.

I love debating about this mainly because I feel strongly, but at this point, I can't think of much to say. It won't stop me in the future from arguing against it however.

For me, I think Link and Malon's relationship is based on the fact that I don't believe Link would abandon his roots, or the humble background he came from. Judging from the farming tools in his tree house, I would be willing to bet that farming wasn't a completely foreign notion to him. I understand he became something more the moment he entered the Great Deku Tree. But that doesn't stop him from being who he is, before that moment. And considering the kind of person I think he is, I believe that he'd not only more be drawn to Malon, but he'd be more comfortable around her. He knows (and I believe Malon understands) that Hyrule takes precedence over Malon. But considering how Malon is *PART* of the Hyrule, I don't think he's really giving up much at all.

And I'm not saying Link would abandon Zelda. And everything almost everything I just said could be reversed and applied to Zelda.

I dunno what is. Oot Zelink just didn't strike me as Malink did.

But you're right, I think at this point, we're just kind of talking in circles. I still stand by my ship, but I can't walk away without saying I'm a little more enlightened.

I don't think Link would abandon his roots either..but I don't think he'd choose a girl for the sake of keeping them. I agree farming's not too different from forest life...but I have trouble seeing him returning to where he started effectively. Like TP Link...I can't in the world imagine him staying in Ordon. I see him ending up aimless, if nothing else.

Part of the trouble IMO in imagining Link ending up in the palace is because we've never been given the opportunity to see it happen... to see it become a reality. Link is always humble and comfortable is lowly roots...because it's part of the tale that he must start out there. I don't have as much trouble seeing Zelda living a humble life mainly because we've seen it in Sheik and Tetra. But I digress...the bottom line, is in my opinion, if Link truly loved a girl for who she was...he'd make due where ever he was transplanted.

I noticed that you've said almost everything applies to Zelda. Agreed. As much as Malon may have seemed inviting to you, Zelda did to me. I loved how she looked at him with those big beautiful eyes, as if inviting him in...to confide, to let her believe in him. Then, as an afterthought, she mentions she's the Princess...there's no distance there because of her rank, just two kids sharing a goal. I believe Zelda's unwavering faith in him would give him strength..he'd want to fight for her. The word I think of when I think of the way Zelda was when they met? Captivating.

Just one note:

But she's not Hyrule itself, in the manner Zelda is. I still believe Link loving a small part of Hyrule could cause him split loyalities. He belongs to all, and while they may both acknowledge it, it would be small comfort on a lonely night when Link was far from home, serving the greater good.
And again, all Malon ever talked about was the ranch, so I doubt she ever would truly understand the big picture. She doesn't know it, so how could she love it like he does?

I don't think Malon loves Hyrule any less than Link does. It's just as much her home as it is his. Granted, she doesn't have the same responsibilities and duties that Link does, but that doesn't necessarily mean she loves it any less than he does.

Link and Zelda's first meeting didn't strike me the same way. It was more of a "oh you fulfill my prophecy. Please to be going to get these items for me now". And I don't mean that something didn't start there. Maybe it did. Maybe it didn't. I, personally, can't really say for sure. They were bound by a common goal and then by fate. There's no denying that. But, that doesn't necessarily lead to a romance.

I agree completely.

Edit: Ugh this sounded much better in my head. Sorry if it's confusing.

I agree completely.

Edit: Ugh this sounded much better in my head. Sorry if it's confusing.

She knows it less than he does: the people, the places...she's lived in a very small world her whole life, with trips we know occaisonally to the Marketplace. I wouldn't expect her to have the same kind of affection Link would have for instance, for the Gorons or Zoras.

Maybe it doesn't always lead to romance, but we've seen many instances where it has: in fact in most of the series. Link and Zelda re-appear in many titles and often fall in love or it is implied: sure they are different Links, but they have much in common, enough to make some consider them "reborn" each time. They share a great adventure together...it's a classic set-up to grow into a romance. And I'd say a running theme in the series, enough that even Smash Brothers Brawl jumped on the band wagon recently.

For OoT: Remember this quote from Ruto: " And you, you are searching for the Princess, Zelda?
Hah! You can't hide anything from me!"....that's pretty much a flat out implication that he likes Zelda that way: if you've seen someone tease a shy boy...that's exactly how they react, and the reaction that they often get from others.

Link in WW has pretty much the same reaction. Beedle: "Are you acquainted with that adorable little pirate girl? ...You are looking bashful" or something along those lines.

So in terms of DID it grow into romance? based on that and other stuff..I'd say the chances are high.

In terms of Malon, did it grow into romance? The precedant we have here is Marin, and in that case, yes. But Marin is not Malon, and if you've played later games where Malon appears, there's no romantic hints whatsoever.

Dealing directly with Malon: it's difficult to say, as the game didn't make any effort to point it out, or his reactions to confirm it. At least with Ruto, we knew from his shocked reactions that he didn't appear to be pleased when confronted with her "love". Again, this is where MM comes in with Cremia. In that case, given the circumstance, the most I would suspect is infatuation: it's not followed up on.

Zelda isn't any more Hyrule than Malon is. She is Hyrule's future ruler, yes. But without people to rule over, her position doesn't mean much. And how many people do you think Zelda knows personally, like Link. Or even on the level Malon knows people she met in the market. I'd think the people from Kakariko would come to Hyrule Castle Town. The Gorons certainly did. As did the Gerudo. And I'd wager the Zora went into the castle town to sell goods just like the Gorons did. So Malon had plenty of opportunities to meet people (from all over Hyrule) and interact with them on a (somewhat) regular basis, depending on how often she went to the market with her father.

I don't see how what Ruto said had anything to do with Link liking Zelda. She had been missing for 7 years. Of course Link was looking for her and wanted to find her. He had probably assumed Ganondorf had done something to her. Since he's only seen her twice in his whole life, well up until that point at least.

The reason I am unconvinced that it grew into romance is the simple fact that Link didn't really know Zelda. The moment he met her, she sent him off on a mission. The second time he saw her, she was fleeing the castle. And the third time he saw her, she was captured. They never actually had time to develop a romance since Zelda was M.I.A most of the time and Link was running all across Hyrule. Yes she followed him around as Sheik. But Link didn't know who he/she was. He tried to find out, but Zelda kept her distance from him. So if there was any romantic feelings, I'd believe it was only one-sided.

Aside from that, Link was sealed up in the void for 7 years. He developed physically, but not necessarily emotionally. So technically, he could be a 10 year old (or whatever age you believe him to be) trapped in a 17 year old's body. I don't know many ten year olds who have dating girls on the top of their list. (Though for clarity's sake, this makes the Malink ship just as unlikely in the adult time line), especially since it seems Link didn't sire any children in the adult time line.

So it would be more probable for either ship to happen once Link returned to his childhood and grew up normally. With that said, we don't actually know how or where Link grew up. Aonuma simply stated that Link returned to Hyrule after leaving Termina to grow up because that was his home. There was no real implication of where he went after that. But we don't know where he returned to. Zelda wasn't his only friend. He probably went to see the Kokiri. He could've went to see Zelda, which makes me wonder how easy it would've been for him, since I assume he had to sneak back in to see her the first time. Though since Zelda is his friend, he probably would've continued to sneak in to see her every so often until it was okay for him to actually see her.

And he had a reason to see Malon and that would be to return her horse. We don't really know if she gave it to him or not. And even if she had, I'd think Link would want to see her again. She was his friend. I don't necessarily see Link being comfortable growing up in a castle. Because honestly, I don't think that's where he belongs. That's not to say he'd want to live on the ranch either. But that's where I'd like to think he went. And since we don't know for sure what happened to Link after he returned to Hyrule, it really is left up to the personal feelings of the player. Until we get something definite otherwise.

And after saying all of this, I think the only real romance (outside of AoL) I believe portrayed in any Zelda game without question is that of Marin/Link.

Edit: wow that's some tl;dr.

Regardless of this, my original point has to do with thinking, and the goals in life of these two women. From what we can make an educated guess about, or is said in game...Zelda's goal is to grow up, and rule over her people: to ensure their welfare.

Malon's seems to be none other than to find a husband: to ensure the welfare of herself, and likely the ranch. So we are still dealing with a fundamental gap in the size of the goals here. Welfare of the group vs one person. ( and some animals )
Which goal is closer to Link's? With Zelda, he'd likely never get the benefit of being her number one concern, she's got other things to worry about. But if anyone could understand this...it'd be Link.

My point is how it was said: like she discovered a secret, something he tried to keep hidden. As I saw another fan say: " In OoT Link denies to Ruto that he's looking for Zelda, yet he is. That's a clear sign, especially regarding her status. Had he just been an honourable knight looking for his princess he wouldn't have denied it."....he obviously reacted in some manner visibily to make Ruto react like that.
It's not the bare meat of the words that matters here: it's the implication. Also the fact it's in a discussion about love.

And he knew Malon better? I'm repeating myself, but this is the girl who thought he was a stranger even after he played Epona's Song for her.

I have every reason to believe romance did happen - for both of them. Ruto's clue practically outright says it.

As to Link's maturity...I'm torn, but I do believe he had a certain amount of understanding. If only because unlike his child state, he knew what "eternal love" meant. ( He instantly reacts in shock ) He also obviously knew the implications of " Saria will always be....your friend." The language used to communicate with him is that of an adult, and he seems to understand.

He didn't have to sneak in when he left for Termina, he's got Epona with him. There's no way he would have snuck his horse in...the whole problem in the beginning was because the guard didn't think Zelda would grant him an audience...well, she would post Termina.

I don't have trouble seeing Link in a castle, for one simple reason. LoZ is a game all about growth...he grows from being a farm boy/forest kid/island kid into a hero who leaves his beginnings...he's usually aimless after adventures for the goal of making all fans happy..but there's no reason to believe he couldn't grow into more. Remember the Magic Armor in TP? That's the King's Armor..or at least Zelda's consort's. If they didn't want us to think about that option..why give us something so obviously royal, that suits Link? ( I think it was OoT Link's, because the other two hero's clothing were )
It's not just that: there's an interview supposedly stating after AoL that Link married Zelda, and they ruled Hyrule together. So the idea of the palace being Link's final destiny is not unwarranted.

To counter your opinion: I don't think the ranch/simplicity is where he belongs either. If only because it's counter-productive. Why take the time to develop a hero into more only for him to effectively return to where he started? Even if Link chose a simple life, it doesn't mean he'd marry Malon. If he was going to marry her, it should be because he loves her, not her lifestyle. But as much she may share his lifestyle and upbringing...I think the whole point of LoZ is to take him away from that.

The guards weren't letting anyone in, because of the guy trying to sneak in the to see Zelda. They had upped the security for that very reason. Assuming that that happened, I don't think it was unlikely that Link was refused entry this time around for that reason.

Besides this, that may have very well been her original goal. But people grow and change. I don't think it's too far out of her personality to actually want to leave home, as she is blatantly adventurous. And who's to say she didn't? The Ordon Province is chock full of people who may be descendants of Malon (one person believes Ilia is a descendant as opposed to Link).

And as for what Ruto said, Ganondorf had the uncanny ability to know exactly what Link was doing. He even admitted that he didn't stop Link for the simple fact that he wanted to draw out Zelda. Link may have an idea of this, since he heard Ganondorf's voice in the Forest Temple, so I'm pretty sure Link didn't want it known that he was looking for Zelda. He had no idea what would happen if he found her and everyone knew about it. He didn't want to draw Ganondorf's attention to that.

Link had more opportunities to visit Malon. And I'm not saying he stopped all the time to see her. Because saving Hyrule was number 1 on his priority list. But when he returned to his own time and actually had more time to spare, I don't think it very far fetched that he went to spend time with her.

And I don't think it's counter-productive for Link to chose a simple life. More like settling down. He wasn't going to be young forever. He wasn't going to be able to go on adventures all the time. He was going to grow older and would most likely want a family. Considering he had reasons to spend time with either girl, it's once again, a matter of preference of who he fell in love with.

But come to think of it, Link has a reason not to chose any girl. I've said this before, but it would be because he doesn't desire to hurt anyone. Link's got a wanderlust, so I doubt he would want to stay anywhere for very long. And that would hurt both girls, as they both have duties that they cannot readily abandon.

Malon, adventurous? I don't see it. Marin yes, but I believe that attribute came from Zelda, who's displayed it as Sheik, Tetra, and especially in the manga's.

Malon on the other hand...she wanted to go home when Link found her outside the castle. She refused to leave the ranch when she could have...home seems like her primary concern..I don't see her desiring to leave.

Note: as I am a Zelinker, I obviously don't think TP Link is a descendant of Malon...I actually think his ranching skills are the result of "The spirit of the beast", which likely also made OoT Link so good with animals. So, going on the grounds that the Hero's Spirit is OoT Link ( it's implied ), we can deduce TP Link is his descendant.
Is he also Malon's ? I'd say no. The most likely candidates are Malo and Talo, who actually LOOK like Malon and Talon: and Link is very obviously by race and looks not closely related to them. If they were both Link/Malon's: I'd expect to see something in Malo/Talo to remind me obviously of OoT Link, and something in Link that was similar to them.

An alternate choice I can see is Colin being the Hero of Time's descendant, as he's the spitting image of OoT Link as a child. But that likely means TP Link ( and the Hero's Spirit ) are not related to OoT Link, which I think is less likely...either that or Colin/Rusl and Link are very distant cousins. But the same goes with comparing Rusl/Colin to Talo/Malo...they have nothing in common. Looks, nor career. Rusl is a blacksmith, and suggested former swordsman. He may have brought his small family from elsewhere, along with Link and Link's parents. Enough of that...my science background makes me enjoy talk of genetics, all I can say.

To Ruto's statement:
He gives no indication of hiding his quest for Zelda...in fact, his mission to save Hyrule would obviously result in him finding her, so why should he keep it secret ?
It's more likely that Ruto is an overbearing person..and he wouldn't want to confide his feelings about Zelda to her, or give her reason to suspect how he felt about Zelda...she discovered something secret. Anyways, I don't think this is worth arguing about. I'm not going to change your mind, and that statement struck me as blindingly obvious.

So because Malon's available..he'd want her over Zelda? The likelihood of him visiting Zelda is just as high. And we actually saw him visit Zelda twice when he didn't have to: at the end of OoT and later when he left in MM. Zelda also seems to imply they've spent time together. "I shall never forget the days we spent together in Hyrule"
With Malon, we've got nothing. He has Epona in MM, so it's implied...but the game doesn't elaborate. Zelda's the one he remembers..when he reunites with Epona, he runs past the spitting image of Malon ( Romani ) without even a backward glance.
But anyways: the games aside...To deal with love here:

It seems to me that often when a guy is presented with a challenge, they like it more. All the great stories have the male protagonist facing some great obstacle before he can win his lady-love right? Malon doesn't strike a chord with me because it's the opposite: she practically hands herself to him. Cremia and Romani downright pursue him...not the opposite. Malon seems almost too easy to get, too willing, IMO, for it to make a great story. Zelda strikes as the kind of girl who would never chase a guy...and Link spends his whole quest pursuing her, or something at her behest.

And when Link finds her...he doesn't get a fancy reward, or anything of the sort. In OoT, it's just the two of them...to me, Zelda WAS his reward. Hyrule was saved and all happy...but it's just the two of them floating alone in the sky....so beautiful and fulfulling.