Defending the Princess, Why Zelda?

Well it seems to me that it can't be helped if hardcore gamers sometimes poke fun at the Zelda franchise. Mainly with the non masculine sweet and gentle OOT Link with the big pointy nose and creepy blank stare and accusing him of being mothered and coddled by the over caring OOT Zelda. Or the WW game being too kiddie or TP Link is clearly not a ladies man and TP Zelda is a royal snob. I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinions so I don't let it get to me since Link and Zelda are just video game characters and not real people.

Who said it needed help? We can poke fun... Hell, let's say what it really is: we can speak crap about every game out there, Zelda has no reason to be left out of the bashing. Except I can't accept everyone's opinions, not when they try to make me look stupid because I like something they hate for a reason that is questionnable. Can't change their minds, but we have the ability to communicate with words, let us use it to defend what we believe in, whether it's about the gods themselves or the right shape for a salad fork.

Knowing many Japanese games, anime and manga, I can say Link is masculine. Not manly, but masculine in an innocent boyish way.
And TP Zelda a snob, I really can't see where it comes from. I thought acting as a snob involved treating others as lowly pieces of disposable meat.

I think the boyish innocence thing is why Link gets made fun of in the first place. Sure its cute and adorable for fangirls but not so adorable for others I'm afraid. And as for Zelda being a snob, I can sort of understand how maybe it is more associated with TP Zelda since IMO she is more of the ideal and rather cliche all wise and all knowing elven queen ala Lord of the Rings with the heavy British accent.

With TP Zelda saying stuff like "This is no time for LEVITY" I'm not that surprised that she is associated with a snooty royal stereotype. After all she is a royal princess who is generally accepted as being unusually wise as well as being typically royal like & formal whether we like it or not. But I don't see how snob can be associated to the more loving and caring OOT Zelda or even Tetra from WW at all.

I don't see how one can assume that TP!Zelda is snooty based off of her vocabulary. That's just retarded. TP!Zelda is the very first Zelda in the series to be a ruler during the story itself, and because of that, she is going to be more mature and formal. She's not a child or teenager like the past princesses. She's a strong, wise ADULT. There's no way in hell that a ruler who'd surrender in order to save the lives of her people could ever be snooty or fall into the "spoiled princess" stereotype.

Anybody who'd come to that conclusion in TP!Zelda's case is desperately looking to justify their negativity towards Princess Zelda, regardless of how idiotic they may sound.

I personally don't see TP Zelda as SNOOTY but IMO she does fit the cliche stereotype of the age old LOTR standard of the all wise and all knowing elven queen with the heavy british accent. Whether the diehard Zelda fans want to admit it or not, TP Zelda's character/personality is VERY common in pop fantasy literature since LOTR was published back in the 1950's or so.

So IMO I don't see TP Zelda as unique as OOT or WW Zelda at all but I agree that the game gives enough hints that she is a benevolent ruler as you say. But I still think the notion that TP Zelda, or any other Zelda for that matter, is obsessed with socialism/social equality and she constantly visits the local orphanage and personally gives free bread to the poor as just sugarcoated fanfic theories made up by the zealously diehard Zelda fans and nothing more. I'm still not surprised that TP Zelda is played out by non & casual Zelda fans to be the ideal embodiment of the cliche royal stereotype.

We certainly live in different worlds since I don't see OoT and WW Zelda as ''original'' either. Anyway, it's not because it's common that it's bad. And I did find TP Zelda to be refreshing in a sense that before playing TP, all I had seen were either princesses who were so complete tomboys they annoyed the Hell outta me (like, geez, you die your kingdom dies; shove it up yours and stop being a selfish daredevil) or so complete girly sugar with everything nice (I'm looking at you, Barbie! *hates*) they annoyed the Hell outta me.
I admit TP Zelda is what I had imagined though, since the little I knew about the games back when I started playing TP left me believe she was somekind of wise ruler we had to help.
Turns out she was... somekind of wise ruler we had to help.
And she was beautiful.
Though on her vocabulary, if OoT Zelda had grown in her castle and not on the streets hiding from Ganondorf, I think her vocabulary would've been more sophisticated too. Anyway, it's hard to argue over assumptions.
I don't see her with a British accent. Not Australian, and even less Texan, but not British. *Thinks* I think Link also has an accent that's different from what we usually hear in typical movies, and I believe it's a different one from Zelda.
Anyway, she's a princess with not much screentime, who all her life lived inside castle walls. They are taught to keep everything inside, always, and that image is everything. I would gladly welcome a Zelda game where we get to see more of the princess' personality, whether she's wise and grown or still a child.

I also don't think Zelda would go out give bread to the poor when she could be working on ways to make the economy better instead. I think she knows it's nice to give a hungry man fish to eat, but it's better to teach him how to fish. Being a wise ruler, she'll be working on ways to make sure everyone gets their chance to learn.
After all Hyrule doesn't exactly look like a society filled with poor people.

And some casual fans see Link as a shallow guy who can only think about ''stab stab stab rupees save the princess'', not exactly a cute cudly boy. I admit the way they spoke I think they didn't pay much attention to TP and were rather talking about OoT. No, they never make the child-to-adult relation.
The even more casual fans... ok they're SSB players and to them Link is the ''DON'T talk to me *death stare*'' type of shallow guy.

Bah, anyway. To me, OoT Link isn't cute cuddly and wuvly, he's complicated. IF we take the time to analyse how fucked up it should be to wake up seven years older without any mental preparations. The rest of the time, people play, enjoy, and move on. It's not with them that I want to discuss about ''so, was Majora's Mask theme intentionnally linked with Link's inner conflicts in OoT?''

Ok, been tired and sick for time now, so rereading properly is out of the way. If anything doesn't make any sense, blame the stupid fugly virus I have.

Can't argue with how some casual gamer fanboys percieve Link as this shallow and one tracked minded hero who is only good for poking enemies and never verbally expressing his own opinions. But I don't know whats more annoying. Fanboys who make Link into this simple minded hero who is only good at blindly following orders, or fangirls who see Link as the ideal romantic fantasy of the cute and adorably submissive boyfriend. But I'm OK with the common perception of Link being the generic soft spoken nice guy in social situations. Its just I would relate more to Link if he was more like Beowulf or Leonidas instead of the socially introverted and melancholic social misfit who trusts everyone he sees and meets.

BACK ON TOPIC:
I agree that there is nothing wrong with the common cliches associated with Zelda. I just get a little amused with the fandom trying too hard to make her seem so benevolent and unique that it becomes pretensiously lame IMO.

Yeah, basically, to each their own annoyances.
One of those things which, while they don't exatly annoy me, they do make me ponder, is how some fans describe Zelda as if she was a peasant who got thrown into Hyrule castle and not a princess with wishes of freedom.
I mean, Zelda wishing to see the outside world and wishing to be more simple I can understand, but Zelda acting as if everything outside was better, even working with cow poo... Not something I agree with.
Sure, being royalty is like being a slave to your people (when you're doing it right), having to constantly think more about them than yourself, but there are some things a woman born and educated inside royal walls just won't do.

I agree with you 100% on that one. I have a theory why some diehard Zelda fans try too hard to make Zelda as a simple commoner and downplay the aspect of the very wise and generally formal royal princess. IMO its because the obvious insecurity they have in that they want the similar simple background and similar simple innocence that is way more inherent in the LinkxMalon pairing.

Thank goodness I'm a Malinker.

You have SERIOUSLY got to stop insulting other Zelda fans, regardless of whether or not you agree with them. I mean, really. C'mon now.
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ANYWAY!!!


I've never encountered a Zelda fan who made Princess Zelda out to be like a commoner in personality. I can, however, understand if Zelda would wish for a taste of freedom every now and then while still maintaining her role as royalty.

On the note of innocence, I don't see it in Link x Malon. For one, OoT!Link definitely isn't going to be innocent in terms of personal growth. Sexual experience, perhaps, but I'm sure he felt the urges during his time as an adult. Remember, he wasn't turned into an adult- he woke up 7 years later. His body matured, therefore, he would have been able to feel sexual attraction and urges towards others. His sexual innocence, however, would be greatly affected by who he was with.

OoT!Zelda... I can see her being just as mature as Link in terms of personality/personal growth, maybe even moreso than OoT!Link. Afterall, she sent back her only friend/love interest outside of castle life. Sure, she married later on (because Tetra is a descendant), but I think it'd be more of a diplomatic marriage. On the other side of the timeline, even as a child she respects Link's need to adventure, and she waits for his return. Sexually, though, I think she'd be more innocent than Link or Malon. It's highly unlikely that she'd be screwing around with the nobles. In terms of a relationship, I think she'd be a bit shy. Remember, she doesn't know anybody outside of the castle, and she doesn't get to grow up and be social with other children. When she would finally experience attraction towards somebody else (Link, perhaps), the romance would more than likely be very innocent for a lengthy amount of time. In this case, Link would probably be the one to make the moves.

OoT!Malon seems like she wouldn't be as mature as Link or Zelda, at least not in her younger years. Later on, though, she'd definitely be mature- definitely not innocent. Aonuma stated that MM characters gave us insight to their OoT parallels- this means that the Cremia we get to know is how Malon would act. Cremia kept heartbreak to herself in order to maintain peace with her best friend, and she took on caring for the ranch and her younger sister after her father died. This tells us that Malon wouldn't be very innocent in terms of personality- she'd be much more adept to dealing with personal hardships than Link and possibly even Zelda. However, because of her social skills, she'd be more likely to move at a quicker pace in a relationship than Zelda would. If she was with Link, I think they'd be in each others pants and married (pick which order you prefer) faster than Link/Zelda would. She seems like the least innocent of the bunch. In this case, Malon would probably be the one to make the moves.


IMO, MaLink leans more towards spontaneity and sexiness while ZeLink leans more towards classic fairytale.

NOTE: I said SOME Zelda fans are insecure that the similar simple background and simple innocence in the LinkxMalon scares them enough to make up fanfic theories that Zelda is the prototype super tomboy/commoner that will somehow prevent Link from marrying Malon. If that applys to you Zeruda then I apologize.

With that said I agree with everything you posted except Link making a move on Zelda. IMO Zelda would more likely have to make the first move or else LinkxZelda in OOT/MM and TP included will simply remain as close platonic friends at best. Personally I can't picture OOT or TP Link making the first move on any female if you ask me.

But Malon making the first move on Link is dead on with my belief so no arguement from me on that one Zeruda. But I think you misinterpreted by what I meant with simple innocence. To better explain, even Zelinkers like yourself have admitted that Zelda with the TOW, even as a child would likely have the mental maturity of a young teenage girl/woman.

IMO Malon just being a normal simple girl without a triforce that makes her SOOOOOO wise and mentally mature like Zelda would be more of a mental equal for the already naturally simple OOT/MM Link than the very wise Zelda would be. And thats why I like the chances for LinkxMalon over Zelda for sure.

You know that doesn't apply to Zeruda, first of all. Second, Malon isn't a reason for everything. Some fans make Zelda a super tomboy because that's how THEY feel, they just happen to prefer Zelda over Malon. (The same way some fans make Link the way THEY are, even when it totally contradicts the game. Hey, it's fanfics, let them have their freedom.)
The one reason people put Link and Zelda together even if their arguments and views on the couple don't fit with the game, is because it's the default couple. I mean, Link did everything for Zelda (and Hyrule, but he was always worried for Zelda, as some in-game hints gave), it's only natural for some to believe he'll want to stay with her when the moment is right. Then they change some things only to make it to their liking, not because they don't want Malon around. Actually, the ''default-couple'' fans often don't give any interest to Malon.

And for fuck's sake, no matter what Link is, he still deserved the Triforce of courage. If he somehow ends up too afraid to admit his love to the girl of his dream, I'd loose all my respect for him and punch him.
Since it's not mindlessly killing tektites that makes you courageous, it's confronting ALL your fucking fears.
No really, it's easier to beat someone up, or try, than to talk to someone else about your own feelings. The second needs a lot more courage even if you look and act like a social genius. I don't want to think the creators just slapped ''COURAGE'' on Link's forehead *cough*lefthandImean*cough* without thinking it up properly.
I mean even with Courage, he has still shown fear every now and then, hinting that they know it's NOT a synonym for fearless, but a word for ''confronting your fears, uncertainties''. Bleh, I'm no dictionnary I'll stop here.
As for Zelda, sure she was wise for her age, but not in a godly fashion. At least not in OoT nor WW. In TP she sure looked like heavenly, but she was so absent most of the game that I can't say for sure that she was as wise as Nayru herself.
You do sound insulting no matter what your opinions.


Zeruda: I have seen fanfics where Zelda was just too much of a ''loool rolling in the mud being snarky to all authority even though I was taught to be polite respectful and there's no mud inside castle walls'', and although they aren't exactly the most common of them all, they did poke me wrong the same way the ''I'm a pretty and clean princess with dreams of love so very fragile inside'' fics do. For me, Zelda is a strong young woman/girl who knows when to be respectful, who knows when to talk back (and more importantly: how to talk back) and wishes of freedom that, although present and true, won't make her give up her kingdom for a free life.

That MM parallel with Cremia and love reminds me how the Anju X Kafei ordeal was compared to the Zelda and Link-who's-still-kinda-10-inside one. Remembering how the Nintendo crew did approuve of the manga (even though it didn't follow the game quite right), and I think the OoT manga was out before the MM game, it wouldn't be crazy to compare Malon's sadness when she saw how Link was obsessed with Zelda to Cremia's sadness to know Kafei is taken.
Comparing the character of Anju to Zelda's however... can't think of how it could be done, or even should. Ah well, another day if there's something there.

I agree Kokirian Clockwork. But I didn't mean to say EVERY Zelda fanfic about Zelda being an exaggerated tomboy is intentional hate towards Malon or Ruto and Saria for that matter. I stress the word SOME again.

Anyway I still think Zelda would have to make the first move on the action courageous but ultra sexually inexperienced OOT or TP Link. In relation to DEFENDING THE PRINCESS I think its perfectly OK if the wise Zelda does so. I agree 100% with Zeruda on the more fairy tale innocence of the LinkxZelda. But I think its up to Zelda or any other love interest to initiate the romance with Link IMO. So unless someone can convince me that OOT & TP Link are Achilles macho manly types I'm always going to think I'm right on this issue.

So you're saying Zelda and Malon are the Achilles macho manly types since they're the ones with the balls to admit their emotions?

I officially can't take your arguments both for and against Link seriously anymore.

Hey, that's basically what you were saying.

Uhh..no. I simply said ANY love interest for Link would more likely be the one to initiate the romance with Link. So I still think Link is definitely not the traditional male hero with sword & shield who prides himself on sexual conquests and being assertive and well spoken in social and sexual situations.

Whether you believe Link is the well spoken Cassanova/Romeo type to ravage Zelda in the hallowed & sacred royal bed chamber or Zelda is the erotically tempting royal seductress who takes sexual advantage of the romantically ideal shy & submissive trophy boyfriend is totally up to you IMO.