Defending the Princess, Why Zelda?

Yeah if OOT/MM Link grew up to be like Vash in Trigun that would be better than him being like TP Link or being the same fairy boy in a mans body character/personality. You can actually translate that to a movie or serious literature and Link would be a more believable Warrior/King ruling by Zelda's side

I would prefer Link being more like the protagonists from Bleach or Trigun than some generic soft spoken nice guy who would be a cute and adorable King that would give Zelda plenty of excuses to go TEE HEE.

And as for why you think that I think Malon would be better for Link than Zelda? Well I don't. Its just my personal preference with a HUMBLE and more adaptable lifestyle matching Link's HUMBLE and unassuming personality with a girl who has a SIMILAR (Not identical) background and endearing innocence. But I would like to think that Link would maintain close ties with Zelda as a close best friend teacher/mentor who always gives Link sagely wisdom and guidance.

And if the situation arose, I imagine Link would ride out to the aid of Zelda and help her to maintain stability in Hyrule and to oversee the needs of the common people/diverse races of Hyrule whenever necessary. So Link being with Malon has nothing to do with inherent stupidity that he can only do brainless manual labor IMO.

But I think OOT/MM Link does match up well with Zelda with her having the over protective and caring older sister thing going on her concerned feelings for Link. I think that alone makes her more romantically compatible with Link than the more older and stoically formal TP Zelda and her Link IMO.

*Laughs out loud* With games like God Of War, it's even hard NOT to see ''regular'' men as wimps.
But with everything, I can't see Link as one who only lives to receive orders and even less Zelda as one who likes to dominate. I see too many cases of bad bosses who are plenty dominant and only some good leaders who never need to dominate, -not with their job, nor with their relationship-, and that's how I see Zelda. Anything but domineering. As for Tetra, being a pirate left her no choice. No pirate can ''ask'' for a favor, the other princesses did however and will choose agreement over obediance.
A Link like that guy from Bleach (sorry, forgot his name), not a bad idea. Just cut the angst. *Nods*
I always also saw Link as being more mature for his (at least mental) age than other guys, despite his innocence. I have no doubt in my mind he'll do everything to be taken seriously as a king and not as an excuse for the female population to go ''aww tee-hee I bet he likes kittens''. After all, he -does- need to prove himself and that's what he'll do. In my version if OoT or TP Link ever become kings, it would have to be many years after killing Ganondorf and it won't be easy.
Though, fan fic speaking, I've yet to read a story with TP Link ending up with Zelda in a believable fashion. Well, as believable as I imagine it can get.
On OoT Zelda, I do also see her as more caring than loving, in a girl X boy kind of love, but that's because she felt responsible for all his misfortunes and she knew that behind the man was the mind of a child. I'm confident that if they could spent more real time together, with him being mentally mature of course, a genuine (romantic) love is to be seen, the ''like-like'' hints were there after all.
On a last note, I do also agree that Link likes a feminine girl that knows how to be playful (as in ''let's run around mindlessly'' playful, not the ''tee-hee, dolls!'' playful, obviously) and how to stand up for herself, whether it be in an active way (Zelda kicking ass as Sheik) or in a more passive way (Malon bravely staying in the ranch to protect the horses instead of running away).

I have never read or heard of a TP LinkxZelda fanfic now that I think about it. If there are some I doubt they number more than LinkxIllia or LinkxMidna fanfics. But yeah in my own IDEALISTIC OOT Link as King in a LinkxZelda he is not going to be like TP Link. But if OOT/MM Link does mature to be a TP Link clone character/personality wise, he would fit better in the Malon relationship IMO. But if he is like the way you and Zeruda see him as a normally matured adult, a King ruling by Zelda's side seems reasonable, possible, and believable.

Question: I noticed you, Zeruda and even Mandy were not that impressed with the Manga or Link's character in the Manga. I have never read the Manga myself but from the info I got from Gilderpilot, Love of Zelda and others, Link's character is like this ideal normally matured teenager who is madly in love with Zelda. I know it has overt Zelink fluffiness to the point that the twin sibling theory is not possible and Malon is like this set up romance for him to outgrow in order to be with Zelda. Also I heard Link actually ARGUES with Zelda in the Scene in the Sky.

Anyway my question to anyone is, what were the positives and negatives of the Manga in your own opinion and why? Go ahead and spoil me or PM me if you don't want to spoil others who might read your response.

The manga's best feature was its art. Gorgeous. Link never actually ARGUES with Zelda in the sky scene, his reluctance to leave is just more noticeable. If you remember, in OoT (the game, not the manga), Link reluctantly hands Zelda the ocarina. In the manga, they stress that. Link wants to stay with Zelda, and even pleads his case to her. But, they both know that, in the end, it is right for Link to go back. It allows Link to relive his life properly, and it allows Zelda to atone for her mistakes.

The manga... well, the bad points were some of the cheesiness. They COMPLETELY made Malon out to be a bit ditzy. I mean, yeah, in the game she was a daydreamer (in terms of romance), but they made her a bit of an airhead in the manga. Not cool. With all of Himekawa's TLoZ works, there are a bunch of non-canon fillers. They provided a reasonable way that Zelda took on the disguise of Sheik, but it's not canon. They also made Link out to be a bit full of himself. They made Zelda out to be a bit flirty as a child instead of a tomboy.

Akira Himekawa... they are great artists, but they find ways to push their shipping into their mangas. They are very much into ZeLink, and each of their manga contains that. ALttP manga, though.... waaay cute. Anyway, yes, the OoT manga had a lot of ZeLink. In that sky scene, Link states he did it all for Zelda, not Hyrule.

The manga is very good, but it's not canon in any way. They only have the license to publish their mangas, not add to the story. So, they can throw stuff in there that's not canon. It remains uncanon, but it's still nice to read. I definitely recommend reading it, though. Their artwork is very nice.

OH!!! That makes sense about the ARGUEMENT. In the game, as far back as the first time I beat OOT on the N 64 I always felt the brief pause was more of a reflection of what Link went through up to that point and the importance of the ocarina during the quest. Plus the game is called OCARINA OF TIME so it made perfect sense to me thats what the brief pause with the ocarina was all about.

Then with the obvious disappointment on Zelda's face that Link DIDN'T put up an arguement made sense to me as a guy that Link was still a forest child in heart & mind who genuinely wanted his childhood restored. So in actuality Link was NOT THAT hesitant as I would have been from my POV.

But all in all the hints to emotional attachment between Link and Zelda were there for believable romance as matured adults in the Child Timeline I guess. Whats up with Manga Link being full of himself?? That is very out of character from the in game OOT Link big time.

I don't really think the look on Zelda's face was disappointment. Really.... it makes much more sense that what she was feeling was regret. There's proof of that in her dialogue, really. She blamed herself for everything, including getting Link mixed up in the whole situation. Then, she asked Link for the ocarina, telling him that she could fix it for him by sending him back to his own time. THEN, Link was reluctant to hand over the ocarina. A brief pause like that.... isn't really much for reflection. I believe that he was reluctant to go back, but knew that it was right.

In any case, yes, it was out of character for OoT!Link to be full of himself in the manga. He wasn't totally all about himself or anything, but he really was a bit cocky, and that threw me off when I first read it. He does go through some character development, though, and that cockiness seems to go away near the end of the manga.

Like I said, I do recommend reading it. You can find scanlations all over the internet, but VIZ is now selling an English version... I don't know how well it's translated, though.

Well whatever the brief pause meant its too vague to say that he was madly in love with Zelda and desired to stay with her so IMO it was more likely a brief reflection on the importance of the ocarina during the quest and what he had been through. And since the game is actually called OCARINA OF TIME and not LINK IS IN LOVE WITH ZELDA it makes perfect sense to me in my mind. Link might have reflected on wanting to stay with Zelda but he seemed more concerned about getting his childhood restored than wanting to stay with Zelda in the Adult Timeline IMO.

At least thats always been my interpretation that the scene in the sky was Link entrusting Zelda to restore his childhood and Zelda being disappointed that Link did not put much of an arguement. I have to agree with Kokirian Clockwork that Zelda gives Link CHOICES and IMO she was not forcing Link to do anything in the Scene in the Sky or make him feel guilty about anything as some people believe. But I will try to give the Manga a read for sure and thanks for the info Zeruda.

Keep in mind I never said he was madly in love with Zelda. You've completely missed the point. Again. It makes complete sense that he was reluctant to hand over the ocarina. He had been thrust into the role of a hero, and that was all he knew. He had made acquaintances and built relationships (friendships, romance, brotherhood, etc.) with people in his quest, and now he suddenly had to give it up. He had found acceptance, and being sent back to his own time would just thrust him right back into a world in which he didn't fit in. He'd have to rebuild all those relationships all over again, and he had no idea how to live on his own. He would be a homeless 10-year-old orphan. THINK about that. Yeah, he travels, but he still doesn't have a home. He can't stay in Kokiri Forest now that he knows he's Hylian- he has to find a place to belong. He did find his place in the world, and now he had to do it alllllllll over again.

Of course he'd be reluctant to do that. But at the same time, he had enough wisdom and maturity to understand that it was best. That is why he ultimately handed the Ocarina of Time to Zelda.

Really, these scenes are there for a reason. There is a lot of depth in each scene in OoT.


...but yes. Read the manga. You'll like the artwork, I'm sure.

Oh yeah...I can agree with that. What you said fits on my theory that the brief pause with the ocarina was actually a brief reflection on the adventure he had been through and making friends during that adventure. But still...given the circumstances of 7 years lost maturity it makes sense to me that Link probably wanted his childhood to be restored anyway. IMO Link didn't seem that hesitant in giving the ocarina back to Zelda, but hesitant enough that he had a moment of reflection and nothing more.

It was more like Zelda made the suggestion and Link in his childlike mind, the brief pause was more like "Uhh..OK Zelda, I trust in whatever you want me to do." Or something that a pure & sexually innocent forest child might say in that situation. But in the subject of DEFENDING THE PRINCESS Zelda did the right thing in sending Link back and restoring his childhood IMO.

*Nods* Since first of all, one of the two timelines would be missing a Link, and it made sense for it to be the adult timeline, where Ganondorf is sealed away and there's no more need for a hero.
Also, I understand the guy for wanting his seven years back. It's really horrible to feel you don't fit in your own body and that even with all your efforts of honesty, you can't help but think you're wearing a mask all the time. Takes time to settle in the new year, takes time to understand you're an adult now when you pass from 17 to 18 years old, it must be awfully awkward when you've jumped from 10 to 17 with no mental preparations.
I think the reason he hesitated at handing over the ocarina, even though it was the right thing to do and he knew it, was because he's been looking for her during all the game and now that he's found her, he needs to bid her goodbye so quickly. The point was to make sure she was alright and defeat Ganondorf, as simple as that, but it's still human to care for someone and know you'll miss their company. (And even as a kid, I think Link can see adult Zelda as downright beautiful. He'll be missing the woman he's been urging to meet for so long)
And yup, it also meant the end of the adventure and the beginning of a new era of melancholy. Can't just turn the page on that the same way we turn the page of a gossip magazine. No need for further explanation, we all had our experiences that could be compared. Just add in some blood, redeads and ''omfg I'ma gonna die and my country is in flames'' panic moments. *Nods*

Manga Link didn't impress just because he could've been any random Shounen protagonist there instead of Link with his depicted personality. Still a fun read, pretty pictures, although some did seem rushed. Thought some added elements were a little -too- kid-friendly (ex. save the small boy episode, kinda overdone in stories of heroism) and the explanation for Sheik actually made Zelda look kinda less impressive for me . (C'mon, I thought it kicks ass when we assume, by the game's dialogue, that SHE disguised herself as Sheik and knew what she was doing all along, acting by her own means, not just having her princess self magically hide in her unconscious.) Was still a pleasant read. Also, I would've liked Nabooru to keep a long nose (eh), but the Skull Kid story was cute.

Don't think I'll be buying Majora's Mask though, unless I find it in store (had to order the OoT volumes) and happen to have money on me, since I've read the scanlations and found it... not dark and creepy enough.

Did like Link and Zelda in the manga, but not exactly my version of their characters. Plenty more ZeLink hints than the game itself, but that's not enough to impress me.
I'm also too picky for my own good sometimes.

Btw: Yes, I did see some TP ZeLink fanfics, and most of the time they made little to no sense if we wish to stick to the characters' personalities. Or they were AU but I've stopped reading anyway for some reason or another.
Don't like the MidLink ones since more often then not it's about Link obsessing over his lost Midna to the point of annoyance (dude, get over it -.-; ) and there's only one IlLink out there I like.
If anyone knows a good TP -novelisation- (sp??) that doesn't shove the author's shipping preference like a pre-teen girl trying to brainwash us into believing her opinions, while still adding more outspoken personality to Link, tell me. Yeah, that also means no forced ZeLink.
I'm asking for the impossible, right?

Yeah, pretty much

And I've got to agree with you on the whole manga explanation for Sheik: it greatly diminished Zelda's badassery. Not only that (and this is just my personal opinion, so you're free to disagree), but that whole notion of "Sheik" being a separate, male personality seems almost... insulting towards Zelda.
Where the game made it clear that, despite the appearance, Sheik was still Zelda (and I always got the impression that having Zelda disguise herself, and use that disguise to thwart Ganondorf's plans while hiding under his nose was the game designers way of differentiating her from other princesses *cough*Peach*cough*), the manga approach basically said, "No, Zelda's a girl, so she can't be a badass. She just needs to look pretty and get captured by the bad guy so the hero can do his thing."
And as a member of the female persuasion, I find that to be very insulting.

Sort of a random thought, but Zelda seems to be the median between Samus' kick-assery, and Peach's princess-ness

I think it was you gr33n sl33ves that told me about this weird concept of Zelda's true spirit being locked away while she was Sheik. IMO this was just a bland attempt to narrow the 7 years mental gap between Link and Zelda in the game to make them more romantically compatible for the Manga. I prefer the more kick ass in game Zelda who was always a normally matured woman in disguise.

I'm with you Kokirian Clockwork on better novelisation of fanfics. Whether its an OOT or TP one, the common fanfic cliche of Link always being this soft spoken and generally submissive nice guy is annoying IMO. I'm not saying he should be some warring brute like Kratos or anything but the girly pre teen romantic fantasy of pretending to be Zelda and having a submissive boyfriend like Link for lame excuses to have TEE HEE moments is corny IMO.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so!
*Agreeing with Gr33nSl33ves and MalonsLover*

Also, I believe that when people say they hate Zelda because she got captured so easily after revealing her identity, it's unfair. I mean, after all she's (consciously) done as Sheik, it's normal for her to feel weary at some point. Besides, Ganondorf could've caught Link too at that moment if he didn't insist on playing around with the boy. He took the princess herself as a more urgent threat, and that's saying something, in my opinion.
Sure, Link was the one with the Master Sword, but Zelda's the one who lead him all the time while evading Ganondorf, and even managing to help princess Ruto to ease Link's underwater quest (if I remember well enough). She's certainly not a small threat.

All the people who say "I hate Zelda because she is a cliche damsel in distress and Link is a simple minded moron for saving her all the time!!" are usually hardcore gamer fanboys who are casual Zelda fans at best. But I think most of my gamer friends bash more on Link than Zelda.

In my case I rarely, rarely see Link-bashing, but enough Zelda-bashing to fill the intestines of a whole herd of whales.
Enough for me to sometimes think I should hate the whole fandom and stop reading the stupid comments and opinions who most often than not turn out to be based on what the people have read from a paragraph description of the game on the local newspaper and not from actually playing the damn game itself.
Roar.
The rest of the time it's from fangirls. Sure, some girly stuff gives me the creeps too, to no end, but it's hella annoying to see some so-called ''tomboys'' put a ''crime against humanity'' sticker on anything even remotely feminine.
Because the bashing is not always about her reckless habit to get in trouble.
I loathe it when princess Zelda gets bashed.
And when Wind Waker gets bashed, but that's another story.
It's ok to openly dislike, it's NOT ok to start spreading hate through distorted and unfair information. (Well, spreading -hate- is wrong anyway, even when involving fictional characters. Fun, but wroooong.)