Defending the Princess, Why Zelda?

Still..I can't imagine Link would have more free time to go riding around on Epona in living at the Castle than he would at the ranch. Plus if Link does live with Malon at the ranch guess whos job it would be to train the horses of the Hyrule Knights? IMO the LinkxMalon relationship is the one that will more likely enable Link with the freedom of patrolling Hyrule and training the royal horses for the Hyrule Knights. In the LinkxZelda royal responsibility would take precedent over Epona feudal knight time. News Flash Epona is more associated with Malon and the Ranch NOT Zelda and the Castle.

So this double life for Link in a LinkxZelda is still just fanfic fangirly fluffy nonsense IMO. News Flash this whole its how fast you learn not what you know logic still doesn't prove Link is qualified to rule anything or anyone period. Again solving easy puzzles and having basic social skills to become the official mascot of the common people/diverse races of Hyrule does not make Link a fast learning genius thats mentally fit to rule a kingdom so easily.

Also..being said mascot for the common people/diverse races STILL doesn't prove Link to be more qualified than a royally educated nobleman or an Achilles type hero. As for girly girl OOT Zelda, she does actually say Tee Hee in the actual dialogue, so she probably will go Tee Hee every time Link politely obeys her as her obedient trophy/royal sex slave. Tee Hee

Anyway this is a great debate.

Ok I'll be rude, here it goes. Edit: I'll be a jerk actually, BUT I ENJOYED IT. Many wuvs.
I'm sorry to say this, or maybe not, but screw you. I'm disaprooving your arguments, not trying to prove ZeLink is official, since it's not. I don't see Link become king, but the reasons you bring up seem to be made up by your own will to see him with anyone but Zelda. Link fucking obeying Zelda when she doesn't even give orders. Overlooking that I said ADULT Zelda wouldn't start going tee-hee on everything he does. Having no fucking example on what makes Link a weak submissive feminine boy with no backbone. Having no fucking proof on how Zelda would love treating him like a yorkshire terrier oh wait now, she WILL do so because she is FEMININE. Oh God I am aghast: treating men like pets isn't a sign of a certain mental distability, it's linked with GIRLINESS. I officially declare anything girly a crime against decency. And now somehow Malon calling him tee-hee Fairy Boy all the fucking time and treating him like a filly (this is not an error, I said filly, not foal) sounds better. And me saying he does have a good intelligence turns out to be me saying it's a proof he's the next Julius Fucking Ceasar, giving Einstein also the possibility to take Charlemagne's crown in the underworld because he learned how to read at a younger age.
And mother fucking news flash here no one mentionned Epona. She's not the only horse in Hyrule anyway. We get to see one side of Hyrule castle and suddenly this means there isn't anything else but some guards, some plant life and an imaginary king there. Impa's white horse and Ganondorf's black horse were simply summoned by their Pokeballs; I repeat, there are no other horses in Hyrule than Epona. Great point there, because she's so the only horse in the entire videogame, apart from some random bay ones no one seems to care about. Also, no characters move their lips when they talk, it's a definite proof they communicate by telepathy. Am I the only one who saw this? If so, I'm a genius.
Double life, Hell, warrior kings don't need double lives, they just are. Granted, they spend a lot of time away from home, meaning a lot more time the ZeLink spends on how they remember each other than how much time they spend with each other, but Charlemagne did participate in his Crusades, or some of them, if I recall what I've read. Don't remember the examples but in some cases when the (warrior) king was away, the queen took the reins of power. Not much romance in those stories. And now HERE'S a mother fucking newsflash: an actual argument against ZeLink romance! Why would Link do everything to be with Zelda when in the end he doesn't get to be with her? Because oh Hell here's another newsflash if Link decided he wanted the crown, the last thing he'll do is get comfortable and the first thing he'll do is travel his land while his woman takes charge of the paperwork. Not much romance for a ZeLink. Unless it's a happy AoL ending where the plot is so simple we can imply nothing bad ever hapenned again and Link is so blank we can make him anything we want him to be, as long as he'll still courageous and strong.
Also, if we stick to everything in-game and only in-game, no one in Hyrule is fit to be king, so might as well accept Link since he's still more skilled and brave than anyone out there, including the dumb guards who have more training than Link on anything yet it's the 10 yrs old who goes to fight Ganondorf, a ''master swordsman and sorcerer''. Why would it suddenly be impossible for Link to discover he has kingship skills à la Disney? Shut the Hell up it's not a proof he became king, but there's no definite proof against it either.

Anyway, you've spent a lot more fucking time telling me how these aren't proofs that show Link became king (when I myself said I don't WANT him king) then SHOW ME how the HELL he is a spineless moron with the confidence of a groundhog and Zelda is a dominating bitch who can't make the difference between a small dog and the man she owes her life to.

You can go to Hell now, because I do feel insulted.

And yes, I say fuck everything single day at every single occasion, the same way Zelda probably goes tee-hee everytime Link wear the pink dress like she orders him to since he's such a huge fucking moron.

Congratulations, instead of simply pointing out how he'll be better off with Malon, you have to bring him and Zelda down. I guess Malon's not worth shit if SHE deserves an empty doll to order around. Do you really like her to give her such a man?
I'd give her the master horseman who could take Talon's place as head of the ranch when he retires, you'd give her the scared nerd who's afraid to stand his ground, when she herself couldn't stand up to Ingo. Again congratulations.
I see no debate here, just you repeating factless phrases over and over again instead of doing ANYTHING to prove them. And twisting my arguments like that, fuck you.

I rest my case, I've lost a bolt.

If I get banned: I've no regrets. If I don't: I enjoyed not getting my rabies vaccination.

Ok, I was rude, and I enjoyed it. What's for dinner? Next time, I'll try passive subliminal messaging.

That was freakin' incredible, KokirianClockwork. I loved it. <3

MalonsLover: KokirianClockwork pointed out your flaws in your argument: you seem to pull reasons out of your ass as to why ZeLink cannot be; everything from making Link out to be a passive fuck-buddy to making Zelda out to be a brainless dominatrix. Your arguments are too unrealistic even for the fantasy world of Hyrule.

This is a topic debating ZeLink vs Link/whoever, not "Why Zelda sucks and Link is a wimp and they can never be, ever ever ever!" If you wish to debate the pairing, try providing a real argument as to why MaLink might be a better choice.

Don't bash the princess- you seem like you don't like her (ANY of the Zeldas), but many people do. You make it sound like feminine women who may or may not giggle must be idiots. *I* am feminine, *I* giggle (a lot), but I'm damn strong and treat my man with utmost love and respect, and you better believe it. You have not provided evidence of any sort as to why you think Link OR Zelda might behave a certain way, except for your damned, ignorant stereotypes. They are offensive. *I* am offended at what thoughtless reasons you have thrown out against ZeLink.

Please, provide some well thought out evidence as to why MaLink may or may not be more suitable. Please do NOT bash the characters.

Eeh, thanks. ^^ Though I regret my overuse of the f-word, I should keep those for the fics I'd rather hide. Oh well, what has been done can't be undone.

What I do prefer in MaLink is the thought that, since Malon is a great horse rider, they could travel the land together and help people left and right without worrying about the things they leave behind. Then, when Talon gets too old, Link can take his place and end his life peacefully, knowing that if people need help they'll know where to find him.
Not such an easy thought with Zelda, but my version of Link doesn't do easy.

Way to go, KokirianClockwork. I was waiting for somebody to call him on his B.S. But after that whole bit in the other thread, I didn't feel it would be appropriate for me to.

Eh whatever..this is just video game characters we are talking about. No need to get our panties all wadded up over it. Whether you or anyone else believe in the G-rated TEE HEE fluffy fics or the lemon R-rated ones they are all the same to me.

And I have never said LinkxZelda could never happen. I just said the IN GAME quietly gentle and simple minded forest savage can never be a King. HELLO!! There are reasons why people like in game Link are never potrayed in leadership roles and I don't see that ever changing. I don't make up the rules on reality I just deal with it and move on.

And anyway based on the logic that a simple minded forest savage is a fast learner and able to adapt to anything is consistent to my own Malink theory. I just think the whole LinkxZelda concept that Link as an ornamental trophy King being generally pampered by Zelda so he can go riding off with Epona whenever he feels like it may be cutesy ootsie for some but pathetically lame to others thats all. I'm in no way associating this particular Zelink theory to anyone of yours or anyone else's. I would rather believe Link has more of an assertive personality that would make me believe he is a fast learner and socially adaptable to a royal lifestyle. In game OOT or TP Link makes it seem impossible IMO.

My personal perception of Zelink is more like a guy who has the personality of Manga Link and though royal responsibilty is a pain..on special occasions he and Zelda go to the ranch and ask best buddy Malon to borrow Epona so he can take Zelda on a leisure ride. (Insert Zelink fluff moment here) All I'm saying is Link having a personality that is not like the in game Link would benefit his chances of being a believable King ruling by Zelda's side.

Well just to let you know..despite me being the lowest lifeform on earth I think better of all of you than typical bubbly/airheads who can't beat Zelda games but write fluffy fanfics.

These are LEGGINGS, not PANTIES or TIGHTS.
Wrong quote, still fits.
Man, don't you get it? I was (well, still am) mad at the way my arguments were taken.
Also, I don't believe in any fanfics, seriously. They ALL have something that makes me think ''nope, would've never happened, not with the Link I know''.
Fun stuff, yet I always find something to disagree with.
Anyway, talking about believable stuff, I would've normally hated the Legend of Zelda, it being about a young boy with no experience in life suddenly becoming a swordmaster and expert horseman in less than an hour. That normally insults the horse lover I am: properly riding those animals is a lot more complicated than it seems and I have the scars to prove it. Also, swordfighting is an art that takes years of practice to master. Handle a heavy weapon such as the Master Sword without any proper training and you can get hurt in more ways than you can imagine. But this game's a fairy tale and I decided to accept it as a fairy tale. Of course in a normal medieval world there's no way in Hell a commoner will get the throne, ever. But also in a normal medieval world, there's no way that same boy will go fight alone a man entire legions couldn't kill.
Again they have horses in the castle. Random fact.
What you make up are things such as Zelda treating Link like a hamster wearing a pink ribbon and him rolling over on command, HELLO! We all agree he's a kid who barely knows anything about city life. The reason most ZeLinkers want him as a king is because they like to imagine him coming back to Zelda, with the experience he gained as the Hero of Time, and growing up, learning everything he couldn't before, becoming a real man, and thus a possible king. In my own version it's actually a tragic tale of impossible romance. It's embeded in my mind: he doesn't beome king. But with your arguments I felt encouraged to disagree.

Hope I'm not included in that ''you'', since I'm trying hard to beat all the games I can get my hands on, including the fan-forsaken Adventure of Link.
No, I don't think your the lowest lifeform on earth, but it sometimes seems as if you thought we fit into that category.

Yeah Link can be a King. I just think his chances at being a King would be better if he was less like in game Link personality wise. Sure its all cute and adorable that a soft spoken nice guy grows from cuddly forest child to adorable mascot of the common people/diverse races and then becomes King. But IMO Link should have the soul of an assertive lion not the soul of a gentle cherub. If Link is to be a King IMO he should have a personality to match that instead of having a personality that just makes it more cute and adorable for the fangirls.

Really, MalonsLover, the whole obsession you have with portraying Zelda as some sort of ditz, treating Link like a trophy... it's so.. retarded. Seriously, WHERE do you get that? I'd really, HONESTLY like to know, because I can't see a woman who put her life at risk for the Hero of Time and her kingdom acting in such a way. She stayed on enemy lines to help instead of hiding. You still think treating Link like a trophy would be part of her character? SERIOUSLY?! That's not only insulting the character and the fans, but the creators. Shame on you.
"When she was a little girl, Princess Zelda showed spirit by pegging Ganondorf as a villain, so we didn't want her to be the kind of princess who would just go into hiding. That gave birth to the idea of Sheik, a mysterious character whose loyalties are unclear." -- PROOF that Princess Zelda isn't the ditz you make her out to be.

And so, you think that if Link is "simple minded" he should be with Malon. That's like calling MALON simple-minded, which she is NOT in any way. Malon was based on Marin, who got her design from GUESS WHO- Princess Zelda. So, while their characters have changed over the years, there is still some similarities between the two. Malon is a beautiful, intelligent, hard-working person.... I love her, but you make MaLinkers look bad. :x

What's odd is that you like to think of Link as "manga-Link" (who was actually a bit conceited), but you neglect to see that the manga (which is NOT canon in any way) is total ZeLink love.

Also, many of the MaLink fanfics are cutsie, fluffy fanfics, and they're BEAUTIFUL. You hate fluff? I LOVE IT! I love MaLink AND ZeLink fluff. Nothing wrong with it. And don't go around implying that bubbly people are airheads. I'm bubbly.... very much so. I'M PINK/GIGGLY/GIRLY/FLUFFY/FROU-FROU/SHOE-ADDICT ADORABLE, really. But I'm not an airhead in the slightest.

...also, I don't think you're the lowest life form on Earth, but I do think that you moronically spew out word-vomit instead of focusing on a real argument that involves facts of any sort.


OH! And here's a fact for you: Miyamoto was "especially interested in having Link grow up, meet a girl..." -- We can assume that "girl" was Zelda. It's been made clear that both Aonume and Miyamoto are Link x Zelda supporters- I doubt they'd make that girl anybody else, even if romance with that girl was only implied.
"After the time warp, when Link wakes up seven years later, he's extremely concerned about what has become of Zelda" -- Of course he is- the last time he saw the poor girl, she was fleeing from Ganondorf. But moreso than being concerned about anything (or anybody) else, Aonuma states that it is ZELDA Link is concerned about. That's nothing definite, but it still stands as a good hint at ZeLink, just as the previous quote does.

...owut? Link traveled time, saved Hyrule, fought Ganondorf in his warlock AND freakish-swine-from-hell form. You really think that, after all that, he'd have the heart of a cute little "cherub". That's just being blind. That takes BALLS.

Look..all I'm saying is for Link to be a more believable King he should be a more assertive type personality and less like the in game Link. Like I said before..there is good reason why soft spoken nice guys who have the soul of a gentle cherub are never potrayed in leadership roles. Thats just something me or you have no control over.

Geez help me Din I'm going all Navi here.
Anyway, I don't find him cute and cudly. Well, he is in terms of looks as a kid, but in terms of personality that's where we differ. He's innocent, that's undeniable, but its degree differs from fan to fan first of all, second it's because he didn't get a chance to grow, except surrounded by monsters and wildlife. Some, like you, see it as he'll never change no matter what happens. I, on the other hand, am persuaded he will change when he gets to live his lost seven years. Not drastically, but IMO he's not as cute and cuddly as you say he is in the first place.
I don't see him as a lion either to tell you the truth, but even less as a pampered Bichon Maltais. For me he's more of a fox: not truly tall, playful, fast, daring and wild. The type to prefer staying in the shadows, but who won't be afraid to show his nose when needed, and when we see him we see his eyes shine with a certain mystery. As cute as foxes may look, they can't be treated like dogs and they suffer greatly when living inside a cage. They are also fiercely independant.
Anyway since it's now entirely based on opinions, I don't have much to write.
Except if I'm willing to go Navi, but my mind's too weak to go Navi without damaging my brain.


Edit: I believe Zeruda is saying he is NOT a cherub in any way, so you can't really reply by stating he is just like that.

Yes if OOT/MM Link grows up and becomes HOW I want him to be, he could be a believable King ruling by Zelda's side. But if he grows up and has a personality like TP Link, Nope...can't see Kingship happening. Royal advisor maybe but not a King. Sure it seems cute in fluffy fanfics but not realistic IMO. And BTW girls..I didn't originate the domineering princess with the simple minded forest savage theory. More than enough people have theorized this already long before I did. So sorry..I can't take credit for that one.

It's not because it's out there that it's true. Some make her a complete, and I mean COMPLETE tomboy hidden behind the image of the girl she's supposed to be, being her true self only when becoming Sheik, and they have their evidence. But I don't support that theory either.
I thought the domineering thing was meant to be only a joke when I saw it. You're the first I see actually supporting it as a possible reality. Ok, you and some Zelda haters actually.

No, 16 year old boys don't usually make good kings.
And the extreme fluff some fangirls use for their ZeLink(or insertgirlhere/Link) often end up with me thinking: ''am I reading a videogame fanfic or a romance novel one?''
Can't help that there's something for everyone out there.
Including those who think it's official that Link is all over Dark Link. XD

Lot of my gamer friends in real life and the internet all unanimously have the similar perception of Link being this generally simple minded forest savage who has a fetish for blindly following orders and so Zelda being a princess naturally dominates/domineers over him. So this theory is only unusual to the hardcore Zelda fans who don't associate with gamers who like Halo, God of War, Gears of War, GTA and other more masculine games. So you can understand that those people's perception of the Zelda franchise is not flattering when it comes to Link's kinder and gentler personality.

But my honest perception of OOT Zelda minus the influence of fanfics: All wise and all knowing princess with a girly girl Tee Hee side and an occasional tomboy who sometimes likes to pick her nose and spit. But I would like to believe that a normally matured Link would fall for Zelda's feminine side and not because she is a tomboy.

I have to agree that I think Link would fall for a more feminine character... which is one reason I support ZeLink in OoT. Zelda DOES have a very feminine side- that can be seen in how she holds herself (walking, body language) as well as character design. She IS, however, a tomboy. Whether or not she grows out of that is unclear- she DID take the disguise of a young man rather than a woman.

But then we look at Malon- feminine? Yes, but like Zelda, would have a tomboy side. That is apparent in info we get from gossip stones- she is the one who set the record for the original obstacle course at Lon Lon Ranch. We can also see more of her personality by looking at Cremia and Romani; one reason MM kept the same character models was to allow gamers to get to better know minor characters from OoT, so says Aonuma. Malon also shows femininity in her "daydreamer" idea of romance.

Malon and Zelda are very much alike, just from totally different backgrounds. Zelda is more aggressive and takes a stand against evil by taking the disguise of Sheik. Still, she can maintain poise and elegance even as a man. When we see her true form, she is a beautiful woman. Malon, on the other hand, is more passive, and would hold onto the hope that she'd be rescued. However, she is aggressive in her own terms- she cares deeply about family and responsibility, and even has a temper.

In either case, Link would end up with a woman who was both feminine AND aggressive (not physically, of course) in their own way. So, it'd just depend on what he'd eventually want in his future. It's hard to determine what that would be, because we only really get to see him before he ever has the chance to relive his life and mature like everybody else.


...but yeah, assuming that Zelda would dominate the relationship is completely out of character in all cases save for TWW!Zelda(Tetra). Now, I doubt Tetra would be domineering, but she'd certainly be sassy.... not that it's a bad thing- it's pretty nice, actually. And she even softened up a bit in PH- proof that she's maturing.

Yes, Link may be kind and gentle (he IS pure of heart, after all), but that does NOT mean that he's a softie in terms of social behavior, nor would he ever let anybody push him around. Want a good example of that? Vash the Stampede. I'm sure you've seen Trigun.