Defending the Princess, Why Zelda?

Agreed. The real irony is that Midna is essentially the same character as Zelda, just they've made her "interesting" by which I mean ammoral, less pure and given more attitude. Has Zelda hit the point where she's too "good" to be interesting? I can't help but think the creators got lazy when they made Midna in deciding that rather than redo Zelda/Sheik ( a TP version one was drawn up ) they would make another character. I would rather have seen Zelda: maybe the ending would have turned out happier for Link. If you imagine Zelda in the role of Midna all along, it could have been one of the strongest ZeLink games too.

I know we've probably discussed this before, but I want to bring it up again. Am I the only one who is annoyed by the claim that Zelda is a useless damsel in distress? Yes, Zelda does get captured in almost every game, but she's far from useless. Even in the first Zelda game (which was released during a time where damsels in distress were the norm, I believe), Zelda managed to divide the Triforce of Wisdom into eight pieces before she got kidnapped by Ganon.

Interestingly enough, in this day and age, no one likes female characters whose sole purpose is to be the damsel in distress/hero's love interest. We want strong female characters like Cat Woman, Lara Croft (did I spell that right?), Joanna Dark, and even Starfire and Raven for anyone who's watched Teen Titans. So why is Zelda having the damsel in distress label slapped onto her when she has proven time and time again that she's a far cry from being weak?

The bottom line is that we want Princess Zeldas, not Princess Peachs.

Actually I see Zelda as a mentally strong, self reliant, and independent woman who really doesn't need a man protecting her. I'm not saying that this is why Link and her are incompatible by any means. But since I see Malon as the simple farmgirl who needs more help and protection than Zelda does, IMO I feel that she is a more suitable mate for Link simply because Malon needs Link more than Zelda does. But I definitely do not view Zelda as the helpless and weak damsel in distress at all as some people suggest. For me, Zelda is quite the opposite.

Actually... (manga reads right to left. Yeah I know, I had to reverse my line of thinking as well)

Actually... (manga reads right to left. Yeah I know, I had to reverse my line of thinking as well)

That scene seems proof to me that rather than being attracted by weakness, Link finds strength appealing. His respect and affection level seems to go up when Malon actually does something. I think it's a matter of looking at it this way: Link is a hero: he saves countless people, many of who would look at him with the admiration of a victim. They see him as their champion. But like any man he's more than the image: in order for intimacy to develop between him and a woman, they'd have to get past the Hero-Victim relationship. IMO it's easy to theorize and make Malon deep, passionate and a fighter, and more than this, but you have to take her into OoC territory to do it. She's not a fighter: neither in game or in the manga. She sees Link as the hero...she doesn't even remotely understand or know the lonely boy behind the image. That's likely another reason why Link sought Zelda out before he left in MM: she of all people knew him enough to understand him. Anyways, Malon is a victim when it comes down to it, like nearly all the people of Hyrule.

Zelda on the other hand is a hero in her own right: an equal. She doesn't require any character manipulation to make her more than a victim. She gets thrown into that role often ( yes, I share your chagrin, Angel Zelda ) but it's more of a case of her being the title Princess...and THAT forces her into a damsel role. She's not a victim, not in her mindset at least.
In terms of what Link thinks: a later page in this same manga has him looking at her with clear affection for her/Sheik...obviously for what she did and how she shared the adventure. He was NOT alone and she directly the cause of that.

LOL!! Your getting me to want to purchase and read these mangas. Yeah maybe Malon might not be that helpless as the game might suggest but I still say Zelda with her Sheikah skills would pummel Malon and her pitchfork.

I generally agree with your post, but I still think Link is compatible with both Zelda and Malon but in different ways. To explain: Going just by in game evidence only: Link is a simple and unassuming HUMBLE type character that matches well with Malons simple HUMBLE needs to find a love partner/knight in shining armor to help her maintain the ranch and even Gilderpilot herself admitted that Link fits the bill.

At the same time, Links simple character/personality is a good counterbalance for Zelda's more deep and complex character as the ruler of Hyrule. Also Link would be a good representative of the common people in serving in the Hyrule Court in knowing their needs such and such. Its just he would be more involved with Hyrule Court politics and less of a hands on hero as he would be if he were living with Malon. Either way I guess it balances out as Link can still be an effective hero with Zelda or Malon but in different ways depending on who he would theoretically choose.

But yeah..you have sparked my curiousity about those manga/comics for sure.

I've brought this up before elsewhere and I'll do it again. While Link might be what Malon thinks she needs ( I think her desire for a knight is more an idealistic dream of a naive and sheltered girl ), I don't think Malon fits what Link needs. What Malon really needs is a dedicated partner who shares her passion for peace and the simple life. One who would do anything for her - and happily take his place as the eventual "king of the ranch" when she inherits the ranch someday. She doesn't need a half-hearted husband who is always running off to the beck and call of another woman and land and effectively being an "unfaithful king" in that his concern is not his own domain. ( Which should be her and the ranch if he married her. )

But more importantly: what Link needs: He needs a woman of courage and strength to back him up whole-heartedly in not only what he does, but who he is. One who deeply understands him and loves first what he does: the people and Hyrule. One who'd give everything up in order to assure their welfare. It should be obvious that Zelda fits this perfectly: she has the wisdom and strength to truly be the match he deserves.

I think you are mistaking simplicity of situation for real humility. Link being humble is based on a character aspect of not thinking highly of himself. In contrast, Malon just lives a simple lifestyle: an entirely different thing. It's very easy to say that her simple lifestyle fits his unassuming character: but he's not simple. Not remotely. He has needs bigger than she could ever fulfill.

Just to contrast Zelda again: her lifestyle is not simple: but she truly is humble. She never waves her title or authority around, rather dismisses it often. She doesn't dismiss the duty however, the mark of a good leader.

I can always depend on you Gilderpilot for a good debate thats for sure. Anyway me and you have similar but different ways on how we idealistically want OUR Link to be. For the reasons you think Link shouldn't be with Malon are the exact reasons why I think he should. So I perfectly understand the points your making to support your idealistic Link, but strangely enough they are the exact reasons why I would support LinkxMalon in the first place, mainly because she is a victim that needs Links protection more than Zelda does. As you know thats the big deciding factor why I have more empathy for Malon than Zelda.

But I agree with you and Love of Zelda that Zelda better understands Link than Malon does and it makes sense since she is the main heroine and she posseses the TOW. But since my mother understands me more than any other woman, does than mean I have to marry her?? What I'm trying to get at is IMO Zelda fits more of the role of a nurturing motherly figure for Link who never had the love of a mother in being an orphaned Hylian growing up in the Kokiri forest.

And there is nothing for me to believe that Malon would not support Link in being a hero at all. I think you and Love of Zelda indicated than even in the Manga, Malon is aware that Link is a hero so that pretty much debunks that notion altogether, as it would be more likely that Malon would be more accepting of Links responsibilities to Hyrule if a theoretical romantic relationship were to happen. She lives in Hyrule too right?? So why wouldn't she be supportive?? The notion that Malon would not be accepting and supportive of Links hero duties applies more to Illia in TP than Malon IMO. And if Superman and Spiderman can work humble jobs and still be heroes without any problem, why can't Link?? Not to mention that living with Malon would make him more of a hands on hero in living among the common people instead of away from them cooped up in Hyrule Castle with Zelda most of the time.

Also the geographical advantage of living with Malon at LonLon ranch would enable him to deal with a problematic danger far more effectively and efficiently in contrast to living with Zelda in Hyrule Castle where he would be the last to know if a malevolent force unexpectedly attacked Hyrule.

To elaborate: Lets just use the running man just for the sake of this debate:

A. The running man is the first to know of baddies running amok in Hyrule. So he runs to LonLon ranch to inform Link where he is probably milking a cow or baling hay. Link simply jumps on Epona nearby and rides out to deal with the problem end of story.

B. Same situation only the running man runs all the way to the Hyrule town gate to inform the guard there of the problem. Then begins this loooong tedious process of Hyrule guards relaying messages to each other through Hyrule town to the Hyrule Castle gate, to FINALLY the Castle itself. Link will finally be informed and so begins the next loooooong phase of him running out the castle door, down the road to Hyrule Town, having to run through Hyrule Town to FINALLY get to the front gate. He then pulls out his ocarina and summons Epona and ONLY THEN can he finally deal with the situation, and by that time the baddies would have done more damage because it took him too long to get the information to react fast enough.

So by a logistics standpoint living with Malon is a clearer advantage in being a more effective hero in defending the kingdom of Hyrule. As I said before, IMO Zelda is better suited for a motherly, MORE UNDERSTANDING, nurturing rolemodel for Link than a romantic interest. And since by your own admission Malon is more of a victim that needs more protecting than Zelda does, Zelda would be more than UNDERSTANDING if Link chose to be with Malon at LonLon ranch. Also, since you and Love of Zelda like to insist that both Link and Zelda are selfless individuals only concerned with what would benefit the kingdom of Hyrule best, it makes sense that the Kingdom of Hyrule would benefit more with a LinkxMalon than a LinkxZelda for sure.

I'm going to make a point here that I hope is understood in the way it should be: that being a motherly figure does not preclude a romantic relationship.

In real life, part of the reason daughter-in-laws and mother-in-laws come into conflict is often because the mother may feel threatened in being "replaced" in a matter of speaking by her son's wife.
The daughter-in-law feels nervous around her husband's mother because she may also feel threatened: in that maybe her husband values his mother more.
The reason for this is because the role of a wife and mother are similar. You nurture, care for your husband's needs and when he wants to drop his guard and open up: a wife and mother both offer the unconditional love and understanding he wants. A husband wants to be understood, and only the woman who truly understands him can love him for who he really is.
A marriage where this doesn't happen will end up being unsatisfying.

In terms of the Zelda series: I will direct your attention to Saria and Ilia. Both seemed to have a) the motherly vibe with him and B ) his special attention. It's very possible that as you said, a Link who was alone and misunderstood may naturally gravitate towards this type of affection: the type Zelda also displays.

And why's that? You realize that Ilia was pretty much the same character as Malon right? Add in a major dose of Saria and you might as well call her Malon version 2.
But unlike Malon, Ilia doesn't have the burden of an entire business on her. She could easily theoretically pack up and leave with Link. Malon has more motivation to want Link for her own purpose.
Think of it this way. Zelda and Malon are both "princesses" in a way. Both are the single heir to an empire and are seeking a man to run it with them. But it's an all encompassing job: farm work is a full-time job ( ask Ingo ) as is being the partner of a kingdom's ruler. Link could be the "king" to either, but he's going to have to choose. A king to Hyrule, or a king of the ranch. You seem to be ignoring the fact that Malon wants a partner, not an absentee husband.

Link won't always be "hands on", which I would define as concerned with the small-time. If you look at the Hero's Spirit, his domain is ALL of Hyrule, and he speaks of the large, not the small.
As for information being hard to come by in the castle: your interpretation seems flawed to me. A ruler of a kingdom would have the best resources to hear about problems as their people would naturally run to them in times of trouble. They'd also have advisors tasked with keeping a handle on different aspects. This system could be broken however, by a King who refuses to listen. ( OoT Zelda's father )

In our modern day world, here's an analogy. The US government for example has all these people who make a living keeping up to date on current affairs and their job is to brief the leaders. They'd be the first to know of a crisis.
On the contrast, a farmer living outside of this hub would only hear about it through CNN whenever he came in from the field to watch TV. Link in TP only knew of the crisis because Ordon finally fell, being an outside and insignificant territory.

The bad thing about Malon being a victim is that a real guy only likes a girl who relies on him for everything for only a short amount of time (trust me, I can speak from experience). After too long, a victim-like girlfriend/wife becomes stifling and tiresome.

While that is one interpretation of Zelda's role, she absolutely cannot be the nurturing mother for very long. It is the basic instinct of any human to find a mate at some point in their lives - this is just how we are intrinsically wired. I believe, MalonsLover, that you have stated elsewhere in another post that Link embodies everything Zelda could look for in a husband. I completely agree with this statement.

Certainly, Malon is aware of Link's destiny. And, theoretically speaking, if Link and Malon were to be married, I believe that Malon would be accepting of Link's going on missions and to war - at first. I can imagine (as it would on any soldier's wife) that the constant departing would begin to wear on their relationship and cause tension. His leaving the farm would cause a huge gap in the farm help as well. I'm not saying that this wouldn't happen if Link and Zelda wouldn't theoretically marry, but there is less of a chance of this wearing because Zelda has seen this with Link before and would understand what to do.

Not quite. If a war were to break on the Hyrule Fields, Link would be separated from the other soldiers who would be stationed close to the castle inside Castle Town. His theoretical location inside Lon Lon Ranch would pose a threat to his safety and ability to reach the military in time.

I believe we could make a fairly strong case (with the manga as backup) that when push comes to shove, Malon is capable of kicking some butt. That page shown in an earlier post in another thread is an example of this. We also know that Zelda can kick some major butt as far as her Sheik persona goes - I'd imagine that she would give any soldier in her retinue a severe run for their money if she was given the chance.

I have always said that two cords twisted together are stronger than one - this would apply very well to Link and Zelda's theoretical marriage and relationship. Since Lon Lon Ranch would probably not be a "target of terror" if war were to break out, I believe that a marriage between Link and Malon could possibly weaken the country in a small way. And yet, we know that all it takes is a small crack in a otherwise-appearing strong wall is all it takes to bring down an entire country.

To Love of Zelda: I only meant Zelda being the the motherly nurturing role model IF Link chose Malon. Since Zelda is supposed to be understanding and selfless as we think she is, she would definitely support Link in his decision to be with Malon despite being a little heartbroken. But I like to think that Link would maintain a close friendship with Zelda in uniting the TOW and TOC to maintain stability in Hyrule for sure.

As for the tactical disadvantage in living in LonLon Ranch I beg to differ. Simply because I felt OOT to be very easy to beat in the first place. So if Link was ME so to speak, I would welcome an attack on LonLon ranch and I wouldn't need the mediocre Hyrule soldiers to help me protect the ranch and my Malon anyway. And Link should never be stifled by Malon always needing to be protected. Thats why I like her in the first place. But you make a good point on the possible wear and tear of Link always leaving all the time, but realistically we don't know of the economic/political stability of Hyrule in a future child timeline. As far as we know, Link will just have to do daily police duty and nothing more. Therefore the LinkxMalon relationship can work IMO. But in the case of Hyrule being in a state of constant warfare your point is valid, but in reality we can only theorize and guess about it and thats it.

I still think LinkxZelda are compatible, I'm just doing this for devils advocate/sake of debate to practice on my typing efficiency.

To Gilderpilot: I'm not sure if you can compare modern society to a medieval society like Hyrule. Its a well known historical fact that monarchs had to rely on their vassals to know how to deal with a problematic danger before it reaches the Kings/Queens domain. Hence Link being like a real vassal living with Malon on LonLon ranch makes sense that he would have more of an advantage in dealing with a problematic danger than living with the monarch (Zelda) where in real life history, he would be the last to know. I like to think that Link is strong and heroic enough to protect Hyrule and LonLon ranch long enough until Zelda recieves word of the danger to send the relief cavalry to assist Link in ridding the problem. Exactly how it was in real historical medieval societies.

With the Hero Spirit its vague and there is no indication in his dialogue that he married into the Royal family. I'm not saying it supports a LinkxMalon as much as it supports a LinkxCucco lady. We simply just don't know.

I generally agree on your Illia/Malon comparison, except you forgot to mention one important thing. Ordon is OUTSIDE of Hyrule. LonLon ranch is WITHIN Hyrule. Hence my opinion that Malon is more likely to support Link on his hero duties than Illia would.

I'm not sure you are understanding the point here: it's not Malon needing physical protection rather than her needing someone to manage her affairs for her and take care of her.
I second what Love of Zelda says: from real life experience, many husbands get tired real fast of having a wife who refuses to be independant and do things herself. Or that depends on him to fight every battle because she won't fight. Malon is much like that. She doesn't take initiative to change her circumstances, but rather depends on someone to change it for her. Each and every appearance she's ever had in multiple games has her helplessly awaiting help, from matters of physical protection to mundane things like finding her father.
All I can say is that Link needs a wife who can take care of herself and Malon has proven she can't, or won't. He has bigger things to worry about than her. Zelda is independant and will not crumble if Link can't be there.

He'd still be trying to have his cake and eat it too. Commitment to both the kingdom and the ranch when it's one or the other.

The point with the Hero's Spirit is that he's bigger than life. He's bigger than himself and about more than just small matters like a wife and family. He even remarks about how the "path of the blade is lonely" ( something to that effect ) but it's necessary. I thought it was obvious at the end of the game that Link had to make that choice. Family/a selfish life ( Ilia ) or leaving Ordon to be the hero. OoT Link is no different. ( Except that people seem to like Malon better ) The location is meaningless because the carefree and selfish lifestyle is the same.

Why can't Link have his cake and eat it too? He is Link, the selfless hero who is willing to do anything for the benefit of Hyrule remember?? You still seem to be ignoring my points in that Link would be able to perform his Hero duties more effectively in living in LonLon ranch than the logistical disadvantage of living in Hyrule Castle. Also comparing Zelda's more encompassing needs to Malon's more simple needs and implying that makes her selfish is unfair, and IMO comparing the two and their obviously different needs is irrelevant.

Its like your still suggesting that Link should marry more for convienience than what would be clearly best for the Kingdom of Hyrule. It also seems that your almost contradicting yourself on Links selfless character/personality. How is living with Malon being selfish when its clear that living with her would be more unselfish than living a more selfish cozy & convienient lifestyle with Zelda. You still have not provided a convincing counter arguement to debunk my theory that LonLon ranch would give Link a better advantage in dealing with problematic dangers.

Plus your constant insistence that Link would probably get tired of Malon needing protection would be like me saying that Link would get tired of being Zelda's lapdog. Bottom line is that we really don't know period how Link would react to a certain lifestyle since the Child Timeline ended at MM. All that is certain based on in game visual evidence is that Link would have a practically better tactical advantage in actually living the life of a HERO with Malon than a life of spoiled convienience with Zelda as a Hero with just a meaningless formality title.

There isn't anything for Zelinkers to debunk because your opinions in this regard are based on your opinions, theories, experiences and desires.

We aren't saying that Link would get tired of Malon - we're saying that Malon would become tired of Link's being forced to leave all the time to do his duties. Certainly, if they were in a theoretical marriage, they would become weary of being apart from each other.

While Lon Lon Ranch and Castle Town aren't far away from each other, remember that Castle Town has a gate that is shut in times of trouble (note the time that you must return to Castle Town in order to speak to Zelda after getting all the Spiritual Stones). Link would be shut out when the town was in the most trouble if a war were ever to take place.

How would Link be living the life of a hero? Wouldn't being a farmer be his primary job?

Co-ruling a country as king with Zelda would not be spoiled convenience. Look at the lives of the better rulers of England - they worked from dawn to dusk in creating policies, sending out colonists, keeping the economy going, sanctioning new buildings to be built, hosting foreign envoys, going on missions, creating alliances, following through with those alliances in war, etc. While the Zelda games never really discuss what all goes into running a kingdom, I will bet money that it was hard work, nonetheless.

I'm not ignoring them: they've already been addressed. You still have yet to convince me how being located in rural Hyrule would benefit the entire kingdom. I still think that saying he'd find out quicker is unrealistic: Hyrule Castle IS Hyrule's centre. And the centre of any major action if it happened.

How are Zelda's day to day needs more encompassing than Malon's? Talon makes it very clear that Link's function would be to work there, not merely lounge around. That means back-breaking labor plus a wife who would not want him to leave.
Zelda's needs are merely a different kind. She needs his emotional support more than anything, and possibly his mind. ( His experience ) She's got plenty of true servants to take care of physical needs. I only imply that Malon's lifestyle is selfish rather than her personally. Her lifestyle is about her family and the animals. Zelda's is about all of the people and land of Hyrule.

I've tried repeatedly to make my point that I believe we have ample reason to believe that Link and Zelda share feelings for each other. But both their lives are about duty first, love second. That's why romance can be minimalized in the game.
Link's life would not be selfish in living with Zelda. Luxury aside, she is nothing more than a servant to her people. As he would be also. They may have physical wealth, but lack freedom. Everything is about their people. I've always thought the life of real life royalty sucks: they have little choice about who and what they are. It's chosen for them.
I've already solidly addressed this several times. Re-read my posts. Lon Lon Ranch is insignificant and away from the action. As would Link be.

We do know actually. TP Link becomes a Hero. What does he do? Leaves simple Ordon behind. The quiet allure of peace is obviously not good enough for him anymore....again, apply to OoT Link. You can't change your logic in a debate just because you like Malon better than Ilia.