I'm kind of torn on this because there are several sides saying similar but completely different things. Some are very disturbing. :huh: :blehh:

My take is that Link was not in love with Zelda in the scene in the sky and just seemed to be more in love with Zelda in terms of emotional attachment. With that said, I think the emotional attachment Link developed with Zelda in OOT is strong enough for him to possibly fall in love with Zelda in the theoretical future of the Child Timeline as an adult matured normally.

Given the fact that OOT Link was in a state of arrested development for 7 years in the Adult Timeline, there is nothing there for me to believe that he was capable of developing romantic feelings for anyone, including Zelda. Emotional attachment yes but not romantic love associated with sexual yearnings. OOT Link in the game just seemed to be just blindly following orders as a polite and obedient child would do with responsible adults throughout the entire quest. The final scene in the sky was further proof of this.

Thoughts, Opinions??

First, I would suggest that "madly in love," "in love romantically," and "just emotionally attached" have better definitions. It is very easy to argue that they are all one and the same definition - just different phrases.

Frankly, I don't know why this topic is being brought up, because MalonsLover will not listen to my point of view - or to any Zelinkers - no matter what. To Zelinkers, the point is moot as to whether Link and Zelda were romantically involved/attached/in love/ready to be married/etc in this particular scene.

However, the scene where Link returns to Zelda in the very end of the game sealed the matter for me, a Zelinker would understand exactly what was going on.

For me, it was the cloud scene that sealed the deal as to whether or not Zelink was the intended couple in the game. The emotion is so thick in that scene that you can cut it with a knife. :)

I thought it was a combination of both: the scene in the sky struck me as the culmination of ALL the feeling in the game. Their time as children, Zelda meeting Link as Sheik with their duets ( music can carry a huge amount of emotion ), and Link charging off to storm Ganondorf's fortress after she was brazenly taken before his eyes. Everything led up to the moment in the sky...the elated feeling, floating in the sky with the camera circling them...it was like they were the only two people in the whole world. That was definately romantic...all these explanations in an attempt to dismiss it...I think they just fall flat in the face of that emotion.

However, I don't think the scene in the sky would have been complete without the last scene of the game. It was terribly sad to see Link get sent back...you can even see one shot where the player ( Link ) appears to be looking at Zelda, and his eyes stay on her as he begins to be pulled away...that was a lovely way to communicate his feelings about leaving her. But anyways...I recall a person saying, "If you let something go and it returns to you, it was and always will be yours." Seeing Link return in the face of time and regained youth was the most beautiful thing of all. I think THAT speaks for the romance even more powerfully.

Well written Gilderpilot. :thumbs: I agree that the EMOTION with what they had been through, whether together or seperated, during the OOT adventure is a very good recipe for the possibility of romance and marriage in the future of the Child Timeline as adults. The scene in the sky seemed to indicate that for me at least.

Despite my forever annoyance with Link doing something different than what I would have done, its easy to believe that Link had developed a deep enough emotional attachment to Zelda for possible romance in the future Child Timeline. But to me, Link seemed to be more like a child obeying his mommy in that whole scene looking confused and bewildered by what was going on.

I'm just puzzled with people from other forums implying that OOT Link already had adult feelings for Zelda in the scene in the sky because it seems to attribute Link with characteristics that go against his pure and innocent personality. If Link was like a normal teen he probably would have expressed a romantic desire to stay with Zelda in the Adult Timeline. At least thats what I would have done if I were Link. And I also got a sense that Zelda was deeply saddened in a way that Link actually obeyed her like a good little boy. Kind of like the whole "when a woman says YES she means NO" type of thing that Link just didn't seem to catch on. But in his child like mental condition Zelda did the right thing and sent him back to the Child Timeline for the possibility of realistic romance to happen between them in the future of that particular timeline.

Yes..as a Malon shipper, I hope Link and Zelda just remain very close friends with Zelda only comforting and nurturing Link as a motherly type best friend. But who knows what happens after MM. But I accept that the scene in the sky seems to be the start of something special in the future CT. Whether thats just a very close friendship or a hot passionate marriage for Link and Zelda who knows.

You are missing something: Love in it's truest form IS exceedingly pure. Even the physical aspect is pure in that setting. It doesn't go against Link's character at all
nor Zelda's.

He did to a certain degree. He hesistated when she asked the Ocarina back. He locked eyes with her as he was pulled away. And finally, he headed straight back to her when he became a child again. If that doesn't communicate his desire to stay with her, I don't know what will.
And before anyone says, "Why didn't he kiss her and refuse!", contemplate this key thing. Link can't do that. Why not? Because he's only a vessel for the player. If he did something so blatant, he'd break that "link". They can get away with the other things because they are minor or can be interpreted in another way...but not something so obvious as Link kissing her or such.

OR he did catch on, but did it regardless because he loved Zelda. Loved her enough to let her assuage her guilt by sending him back.

You make a good point on the breaking the Link thing. Its just to this day I still have that angst as to "why didn't he just stay with her!!" ARRGHH!!. No normal young heterosexual adult male would have done what he did. Going back to being a child when he obviously could have appeased Zelda and stayed with her?? Thats why it seemed to me that Link reacted more like a sweet and innocent child than a realistic young teen/adult IMO. That reluctant pause seemed to say more like "Uhhh...OK Zelda...anything you say". Hence Link's predictable one dimensional obedience that he is popularly known for thats consistent with his inherently annoying naive innocence.

I guess the whole scene in the sky had that purity feel of "the best things come to those who wait" type of theme. With Links infamous childish blind obedience in returning the Ocarina to Zelda with the Zelda's lullaby backdrop music. It seemed to embody Link as the ideal archetype of the pure hearted hero with the soul of a gentle cherub innocently floating away back to the CT with his pristine & unsoiled sweet virginity completely intact. :angry: GGRRRR!! For shame on Link passing up a golden opportunity like that. To choose to return as a visually annoying pint sized forest child over being with Adult Zelda?? Not very manly if you ask me. But I guess if Link had stayed with Zelda in the AT, I wouldn't have joined the darkside to become a Malinker. :P

She likely did want him to stay...she just oozed sadness at sending him back. However if there's one thing to recognize about Zelda, it's that she'll always do what she feels is right, regardless of her personal feelings. She felt she was doing the right thing to atone for the wrong she had unintentionally done Link: dragging him into a horrible future and causing him to miss out on his youth.

If you want to see Link act like a realistic teen: go read the ending of the Adult Chapters Manga. He argues with her when she states her intention to send him back, only stopping when he realizes how upset she is. ( And he's making it worse ) Note: I don't want to hear any "the manga's not canon!" You'll be wasting your breath in saying or explaining it. It's an opportunity to see Link act like a real person instead of the hollow vessel he must be in game.

Not very manly? I quote the manga.

*Link has knelt and put his hand over his heart* "I am the Hero of Time. No matter where, no matter when, for the sake of Hyrule and you Princess Zelda, I shall fight."

I know few women out there who can resist such a declaration.

And why on earth would Zelda sending Link back turn you into a Malinker? Link still remembers and has all his feelings ( or memories of feelings ) for Zelda. He's not going to run off to another girl if he loves Zelda. If you are a Malinker, it's because of your own desire for her, not any real indication Link deeply loved her.

Thats why I'm intrigued with the OOT Manga. Based on what you have been telling me, Link's personality probably fits more to how I imagine Link being grown up in the Child Timeline. Mandy had recommended me to this website to read it online but apparantly it had already been removed to correspond with the mangas official release in the USA. I've been told that Malon is potrayed as a shallow and superficial airhead to purposely eliminate her from Links affections but I'm cool with it. I'd still like to read the OOT and MM mangas anyway.

I'm pretty sure that Link's personality is more appealing in the mangas than the one in the games who appears to be a clueless idiot that I would like to see beat up or tortured to death. :angry: But yeah...I used to be a Zelinker when I was a kid cheering for Link to hook up with Zelda when I played OOT for the first time on the N-64. But after all that hard work he totally blows it. :( Thats why I'm not surprised with all the Link is gay theories that spawned from the scene in the sky. Of course I never supported the gay theory, so I'm more comfortable with OOT Link being labeled as the inept and clueless eternal virgin with the creepy blank stare on his silly looking face theory. :lol:

Not surprised it's been removed, it would be violating copyright I would think. At least they will be cheap enough.

I actually had no problem with Malon's portrayal, I thought it was bang on. Her child version is cheerful, friendly and extroverted...exactly how I saw her in game. Her adult version has somewhat unrealistic daydreams...but they even say in game that she dreams of a knight. ( Prince in the manga ) So that aspect of her is not without cause. Aside from that she's feisty, outgoing and mostly cheerful.

As for her personality turning him off...it wasn't her. It was the fact he was already in love with Zelda that made him pay no attention to Malon that way. He was completely nice and friendly to Malon, he just didn't return any romantic feelings.

He's clueless and doesn't respond because he can't. If he does, he no longer is us. They want us to react in his place...they want the player to feel sad and want to return to Zelda...and then they took a chance by showing him doing it.

True...I agree. Its just the OOT ending was never the traditional hero gets the girl type of ending that I wanted. The whole Child Link returning to Zelda seemed more to suggest that Link was more concerned in seeking out Zelda to fulfill his yearning for MATERNAL love and affection. Not ROMANTIC love and affection. Just as Saria did for Link in being the comforting/nurturing best friend in helping him feel wanted and loved as a lonely orphan/social outcast in growing up in the Kokiri forest. To me the ending represented Zelda taking up that motherly best friend role from Saria IMO. But as you said it still bodes well for possible romance in the theoretical future of the CT, but at this point we can never know for sure as we don't see Link returning to Hyrule at the end of MM. I'd like to believe that he did though. BTW...does the manga show Link and Zelda kissing or hugging at all?? Its OK...feel free to spoil me. :)

Saria was also a romantic interest, but she was eliminated. If you don't believe it was romantic, consider this quote. "Saria will always be....your friend" ( please don't make explain that one ) as well as Mido's begrudged remark to Adult Link. "Saria....really...liked him"
As far as I am concerned, that's a flat out confirmation of her as a romantic interest, just it was eliminated by him growing up and her becoming a Sage.

This motherly thing keeps coming up...I have one thing to say. Link and Zelda are a Hero who rescues a beautiful Princess, and they ARE the same age. He's not going to see her as his mother and she's not going to actually think he's her child.

Yup, the manga shows it once, and nearly twice. Zelda kisses him on the cheek as a child ( he goes crazy ) and when they reunite as adults after her explanation of being Sheik, Link is about to embrace her when Ganondorf snatches her away.

I can see Saria being attracted to Link as an adult, but I don't see Link returning the favor for very obvious reasons. <_< The motherly thing between Link and Zelda comes from how the game itself made me feel in their very non romantic relationship. Especially with the scene in the sky with Link being a good little boy and obeying mommy Zelda in giving back the Ocarina. :P

Believe me...its not how I wanted to feel about their relationship, its just Link's personality in the game really felt to me that he was literally a child trapped in a mans body. But at least the Manga kind of seems to address this and actually gives Link a more likeable personality thats not as annoying as the one in the game. But I'm rather shocked that Link actually argues with Zelda. I can see him maybe arguing with Malon every other blue moon, but not Zelda. :huh: Anyway..the Manga seems like an interesting read.

The thing you seem to be missing is that, yes, Link was "frozen" mentally at the age of 10, but both he and Zelda were mature for their age. And then waking up to find that the world has literally gone to hell, and that he's the only one who can fix it, that kind of think makes a person grow up pretty damn fast.

And while Zelda was up and around for those seven years, disguised as Sheik, she certainly didn't have a normal childhood. I'm pretty sure having to watch your world, your kingdom turn into a living nightmare does not make for a good growing environment.

Of course, if we go by the manga, which said that Impa sealed Zelda's consciousness and replaced it with Sheik's, then in that regard both Link and Zelda stopped growing emotionally at the same time. That being the case, they would have been the same age, both physically and mentally, during that scene in the clouds.

I've no desire to debate this point. So I'm asking it out of pure curiosity.

I've read around here a lot that Saria was eliminated as a love interest because she became a sage. Why doesn't this eliminate Zelda? She became the leader of the sages. Saria is eliminated in the child timeline for obvious reasons. But I am simply curious as to why Saria's being a sage automatically excludes her, whereas it doesn't for Zelda?

I think it's mostly due to the fact that Saria is a Kokiri, an eternal child, and a relationship between her and Link would be like paedophilia on multiple levels (Link looks older than Saria, but Saria is probably much older than Link). Zelda, at least, is the same species as him, and has a similar rate of growth.

Zelda's kind of a special case: In the end the other six exist clearly in a non-corporeal form...not so for Zelda. She's still firmly in the land of the living and calls her power without becoming it, unlike the other six.
A quick look at the "elements" of Hyrule also show something: she doesn't have her own post, unlike them. ( Platforms in the Sacred Realm, Symbols on the Arbiter's Grounds ) I'd suggest her element is Time if any, but she still seems to be a special case.

I also take how the game treated her into account: it doesn't eliminate her as an interest unlike it did for Saria and Ruto. ( They flat out told you it wouldn't work for them, where with Zelda they encouraged it. )

I see OOT Link as a parallel to the superhero Captain Marvel. Its about a boy who says SHAZAMM!! and he becomes a full grown superhero but he is still a child at heart. Anyway..I'm not sure if Link and Zelda were mentally the same age. I don't recall Zelda being in a state of limbo as Link was. I figured growing up as a Sheikah while Link was in limbo, Zelda would be light years ahead of Link mentally wise. But I guess the manga has an odd explanation for this. As to why I don't know. I mean whats the point in Impa locking away Zelda's consciousness?? :blink: Kind of weird if you ask me.

Going by just the game, the scene in the sky still felt more of a mature young woman interracting with a sweet innocent child IMO. And as Gilderpilot stated, Link being sort of a hollow shell in the game is probably the most contributing factor as to why Link seemed to me as more of a child trapped in a mans body, but still able to do great things with his given physical advantages. Hence OOT Link = Captain Marvel parallel.

I have some questions that are sort of off topic, but its cool since its my thread. In relating to the sages that Saami previously referenced. Weren't they restored to their physical forms during the ending credits on Death Mountain?? Therefore if Link had remained in the AT, he could have THEORETICALLY hooked up with Ruto, Nabooru, or Saria right??

I'm not sure if they were restored to their physical forms. I always got the impression that they were merely there "in spirit", I suppose you could say. Sort of like how Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin appeared to Luke at the end of Return of the Jedi. I could be completely wrong on the matter, but that's the way the ending has always felt to me.

True..thats a plausible possibility. But I guess since Link was ultimately sent back to the Child Timeline anyway, its completely irrelevant.

I don't understand why you keep bringing up the sexual thing- love doesn't mean that Link has to want to do Zelda in order to prove that it's romantic. Love and sex do not equal each other. You don't love a person because you want to have sex with them.

That being said, Link's a unique person as it is. He has the pure heart of a child, with the body and experiances of an adult. Is he innocent in many aspects? Sure, he is. That doesn't mean he's incapable of romantically loving someone. He stands in the middle; he's neither fully child or adult, but something of both.

If you consider the manga, Zelda too went through something similar. Her child consiousness was put to sleep while the Sheik persona was created to protect her from Ganondorf. So in a sense, Zelda too was locked away for seven years much the same way that Link was.

Zelda as a Sage has been shown to be quite different from the other Sages. While the others are confined to the Temples, she is not. She has no outpost the way the others do; she's not even given a specific element the way the others are, and has no temple to guard. She's simply referred to as the Seventh Sage who is destined to lead the rest. Being that she's the only heir to the Hyrule Throne, it wouldn't do for her to be taken away leaving the country without a leader or heirs. She appears to be the only Sage who can continue to live in the outside world.

Saria, Nabooru, and Ruto all eliminate themselves as potential love interests for Link, as they have to do their duty as Sages. Saria can never grow up physically, and cannot leave the Temple, hence the sadness in her words to Link when she says "Saria will always be. . . your friend." Ruto says that she wants to pledge her eternal love to him, but that she cannot offer that now because of her duty, and his. Nabooru expresses regret on not being able to keep whatever promise she intended toward Link since he had become such a handsome man. They are bound to the Temples and cannot leave. The scene of them on top of Death Mountain is like the Star Wars thing, I agree, showing how they continue to watch over the world. They also appear inside Ganon's Castle after you break the barriers, but they seem to be there more spiritually than physically.

As for the scene in the sky. How this can be seen as a mother child deal is beyond me. Link has the pure heart of a child, but that does not make him any less of an adult due to what he has seen and experienced.

I never said that sex is the only thing for romance to happen. Its just part of it. If it wasn't children would never be born. I accept the Manga as an alternate reality with Link having a personality like a normal teenager and the strange concept of Zelda's mind being locked away for some reason. It seems that this was used to eliminate the mental gap between Link and Zelda that seemed prevelant in the game, in reference to Link being in a state of arrested development for 7 years while Zelda matured normally.

As for the in game OOT Link, there was nothing in the scene in the sky that suggested Link was in love with Zelda. IMO It seemed more like a mature young woman (Zelda) interracting with a sweet & innocent child (Link). Link's actions were more inclined to be like a polite and obedient child entrusting Zelda as a responsible adult with his fate in giving back the ocarina.

IMO most normal male heterosexual teenagers would have at least expressed some type of romantic desire to remain with a beautiful princess. But Link did the polar opposite and more than willingly chose to go back to being an annoying looking pint sized forest child. I reference the obvious disappointment in Zelda's face when he made that decision, which makes me believe to this day that Link DID have a choice to remain with Zelda in the Adult Timeline IMO. Hence in game OOT Link will always be immortalized as the sweet & pure hearted eternal virgin innocently floating away back to the Child Timeline.

You're implying though that the sexual feelings have to be there in order for Link to love Zelda. If you fall in love with someone, those feelings will follow. But sex is NOT necissary for romantic love.

I don't see what's strange about Zelda's consiousness being sealed away. By taking on another identity, she was very well protected from Ganondorf, just as much so as Link was when he was sealed in the sacred realm.

You keep calling Link a sweet, innocent, virgin child. That contrasts sharply with the image I have of him. Was his heart essentially simple, pure, and childlike? Sure it was, that's part of what made him so special. But there's a big difference between having a pure heart and being a child- Link was both child and adult at the same time which makes him extremely unique. By the end of the game after all he's gone through, you can't really think of him as a child, though you can't really think of him as an adult either. And being a virgin- I'm not even going to touch that because it simply doesn't matter whether Link ever had sex or not in his life- it wouldn't affect who he is as a character. The way Link acts towards Zelda does not in any way seem like a child to a mother in that scene. He listens to her; expresses great regret and reluctance to leave when he returns the ocarina to her. His hand lingers on it, and she places her hand over his, her expression completely sorrowful as she tries to explain that they have to say goodbye. Zelda doesn't speak down to him- she talks to him as an equal, as she always has.

While before he was a child in an adult's body, once he's sent back he's an adult in a child's. That frustration is clear in MM; he remembers what it was like to be an adult and struggles with the changes that had wrote on his world. There's a wonderful essay around here somewhere comparing MM Anju/Kafei with Link/Zelda, and it makes quite a bit of sense. I suggest reading it if you already haven't. It talks about how the curse that falls on Kafie is eeriely similar to the fate Link has to endure after OoT, an adult in a child's body.

I agree with you on most of your points, but its just me having angst as a Zelda game player after all that hard work to beat Ganon and Link doesn't get the girl the way I wanted him too. I've never read the Manga so the whole Zelda's mind being sealed away seems to imply that Zelda was not herself as Sheik. Whereas in the actual game it seems to suggest that Zelda was herself as Sheik.

I've read the Anju/Kafei article and I admit its well written on how it parallels the possibility of LinkxZelda in the theoretical future Child Timeline. But you should read the scene in the sky article in ZU forums where it generally states that Link as a pure and innocent being was not having a romantic moment when he paused in giving the ocarina back.

It goes on to suggest that the pause was more of Link's reflection on the adventure he had been through and the relevance the ocarina had to aid him in his quest. Its highly unlikely Link was having romantic feelings for someone he barely even knew and plus after fighting Ganon and to be floating in the sky all of a sudden. Well...it would be very awkward to just have romantic feelings out of the blue in such an awkward situation. Anyway..the article is in the ZU forums and can explain this point in more detail better than I can.

I've come across this "Link barely knows Zelda!" argument before and I don't pay it much heed. I think the best way to tell how well he knows each person is to really listen to how they talk to him. With Zelda, there's a certain amount of intimacy that suggests a deeper bond, regardless of how much time we see them together on screen. It's perfectly believable that he could have been in love with her.
As for this "platonic and introspective" view that Trahald ( the original writer of the article on ZU ) takes for the scene...that's one interpretation you can take. But he really doesn't eliminate it from being ALSO romantic.

Just because the ending is somewhat angsty and tragic shouldn't deter from the real true romantic feelings that they have. To me it's again Link and Zelda being their selfless selves- though they love each other, they have always served other people first, and that is why they cannot be together. But at the same time the ending also gives hope when child Link and Zelda meet again. I was sad at first that Link couldn't be with Zelda in the future, but that only made the relationship all the more special and lovely, and he still had a chance with her in the past, so it's not like the relationship is doomed.

I don't think that's what it was meant to imply- simply that Zelda's memories regarding herself as a princess were sealed away; her core self remained pretty much the same. Sheik and Zelda were always very similar to me in game and manga. Wise, helpful, and always dedicated to helping defeat Ganondorf by aiding Link.

I don't pay much attention to the 'Link barely knows Zelda' agrument either. I agree, how they talk and react to each other is a much better indicator of how well they know each other. Besides, the same arguement can be applied to Malon as well depending on how often you go to the farm. You don't even need to use Epona at all in the game so communication with Malon can pretty much be cut off after she gives you the egg as a child and you use it to wake up Talon.

Just went and read the article that meantions the sky meeting, and I'm chuckling a little bit actually. Comparing the Ring of Power from LotR to the Ocarina of Time is quite the stretch. For one thing, the Ring was useful but it's power was addictive and warping. The Ocarina had no such warping addictive powers, so to compare giving up the Ring to giving up the Ocarina is not a good example. Giving up something with addictive powers is quite different than giving up a powerful item given by someone Link thinks highly of whether it's friendship or romance. Particularly as we see in MM that the ocarina of time is described as being full of memories of times with Princess Zelda, it's more logical to think that giving up the ocarina is in essence giving up her and that link to the adult version of her.

I agree: I always loved that he returned when he could have just walked away. I thought that spoke volumes about the strength and potential of their relationship...the feeling I got was "a fresh start".

Nicely put. When this player watched that part, that was exactly how I felt...and where I saw the sadness coming from. I found it hard to be sad as Hyrule celebrated, but saying goodbye to Zelda was what made it hurt.
I can't take the Ocarina as being as platonic as Trahald would like to have us believe, especially not after what MM had to say about it.

Yeah..its easy to believe that Link had some type of purely innocent emotional attachment to Zelda in the scene in the sky. I think the article was just trying to imply that Link was not in love with Zelda in terms of physical attraction of "lets get married and have babies together right now" type of romance. IMO if Link were to fall in love with Zelda in that type of special intimacy it would have to be as ADULTS in the Child Timeline.

My question is WHY couldn't Link stay with Zelda?? The game seems to suggest that she was obviously giving him a choice if I remember correctly and it never really explains as to why Link couldn't stay with Zelda. The vague "When peace returns to Hyrule it would be time for us to say goodbye" after the fact that Link obeys Zelda in giving the ocarina back puzzles me to this day. Thoughts anyone??

There are several reasons that I can think of for why Zelda sends Link back. First and formost, sending him back and closing the door of time makes it so Ganondorf's plot never happens in the past essentially- he never becomes the Evil King. But the main reason I believe is for Link himself; he lost seven years of his life, and though he may not care- I don't think there's any indication whether this bothers Link himself, but it certainly weighs heavily on Zelda's mind. She's trying to give him back what was taken from him in the only way she can.

True..I kind of felt that Link probably needed those 7 years back so he can be matured normally for a possible LinkxZelda to realistically happen in the Child Timeline. Now that I think about it, Link staying in the Adult Timeline as a child in a mans body would have been a very strange and awkward existence for him. More than likely Link would have had a very hard time socially adapting not just in the Castle but just socially in general. In other words I agree with you when you put it in that prespective.