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Title: Link and Zelda. TWIN SIBLINGS??
Description: The Twin Sibling Theory


MalonsLover - October 4, 2008 07:55 AM (GMT)
Previously Love of Zelda requested that I get more info on the sibling theory. I browsed around other forums but instead of posting a big wordy essay from a sibling theorist I found this more simple summary.

1) They both have the same colorings (blonde hair, blue eyes, white skin).

2) They're both Hylians (duh!).

3) They're the same age (read that in one of the answer books).

4) The game talks about Link's mother, but never his father. And Zelda's father is mentioned, but never her mother. And if they were both born "before the King of Hyrule unified the land" when that fierce war was going on. . . .

5) They're both ones "of destiny" (Link was "a child of destiny" and Zelda was "the princess of destiny").

6) They were both chosen by the other two Triforce pieces.

7) It said that the Royal Family had "mysterious powers", and Link seems to have powers similar to that (both he and Zelda have prophetic dreams, remember?).

8) The ghosts of the composer brothers tell Link that he reminds them of Princess Zelda.

9) Impa said that only Royal Family members can learn Zelda's Lullaby. (Of course Zelda had a dream that Impa taught Link the song, but what did she mean that only Royal Family members can learn Zelda's Lullaby? Did Impa realize that Link was Zelda's brother, and therefore a member to the Royal Family?)


Impa's actual dialogue:
Only Royal Family members
are allowed to learn this song.
Remember, it will help to prove your connection with the Royal Family.


Also the prologue to MM about the story being cherished by the Royal Family could suggest that Link was part of the Royal Family by BLOOD rather than marriage. I also found this bit of interesting info from Zelda's dialogue in OOT.

What is your name?
.....
Link...
Strange...it sounds somehow...
familiar.


This suggests that Zelda had previously overheard Links name being mentioned by the King or other members of the Royal Family in reference to Link being Zelda's long lost sibling that she was not aware of at that particular time. More than likely after the OOT adventure, whether by the TOW or the King himself, that it would be revealed to Zelda that the name that she was previously familiar with was actually the name of her long lost twin sibling. So in essence the last scene in OOT represents the twin siblings with the TWIN triforces were finally reunited after being seperated as infants during the attack on Hyrule Town years before as referenced in the OOT manga. Thoughts or Opinions??

Angel Zelda - October 4, 2008 05:26 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (MalonsLover @ Oct 4 2008, 07:55 AM)
1) They both have the same colorings (blonde hair, blue eyes, white skin).

So? Many people in the real world have similar hair and eye colors and aren't related.

QUOTE (MalonsLover @ Oct 4 2008, 07:55 AM)
2) They're both Hylians (duh!).

That doesn't prove anything. Going by that logic, I could make an argument that Link and Malon are siblings because they're both Hylians.

QUOTE (MalonsLover @ Oct 4 2008, 07:55 AM)
4) The game talks about Link's mother, but never his father. And Zelda's father is mentioned, but never her mother. And if they were both born "before the King of Hyrule unified the land" when that fierce war was going on. . . .

You conveniently fail to mention that it's confirmed that Link's father was one of the knights of the Hylian army. For Link and Zelda to be siblings, the Queen would have to be in an affair with the knight. And if Link's mother was the Queen, why in the blue blazes would she be running to the Kokiri Forest to ensure her son's safety? And if for some strange reason she did, why would she take Link and not Zelda too?

QUOTE (MalonsLover @ Oct 4 2008, 07:55 AM)
6) They were both chosen by the other two Triforce pieces.

And Ganondorf was chosen by the Triforce of Power. What's your point?

QUOTE (MalonsLover @ Oct 4 2008, 07:55 AM)
8) The ghosts of the composer brothers tell Link that he reminds them of Princess Zelda.

So what? If my dad reminds me of some famous actor, it doesn't mean their brothers.

MalonsLover - October 4, 2008 05:40 PM (GMT)
Actually the King of Hyrule would have been a Hylian Knight during the great war and its easy to believe that during the chaos from the attack of Hyrule Town that Zelda would have remained with him and Link with his wife trying to flee for safety. Why would Links mom want to endure the liability of carrying both of them around and exposing both of them to possible danger when she can easily entrust her husband, who is a Hylian Knight perfectly capable of at least protecting Zelda?

But yeah..I agree with you that what I posted does not fully prove anything, but there is more than enough hints in OOT within the game and dialogue that if Link and Zelda were twin siblings it would not be that much of a shock.

gr33n_sl33ves - October 4, 2008 06:03 PM (GMT)
Age, race and colouring are circumstantial evidence at best. For example, one of my best friends is caucasian, fair skinned with dark brown hair and eyes, just like me. She's the same age as me, and we both even wear glasses, and we are constantly mistaken for sisters, but we aren't even remotely related.
And remember, in not all of the games did they have matching colouring. In the older games, Link had brown hair while Zelda was a ginger, WW Link had green eyes to Tetra/Zelda's blue, and TP Link was sandy blond while Zelda was light brown.

As for Zelda's mother and Link's father never being mentioned, it could be that the game developers didn't bother to delve into the personal histories of Link and Zelda, what with the player busy trying to save the world and all.

Both of them being "of destiny" probably stems from the fact that they were essentially chosen by the gods to be bearers of the Triforce, chosen for the strength of their hearts, not so much as a blood bond.

The game mentions that the blood of all Hylians is infused with magic, and while the general populace doesn't seem to exhibit any magical tendencies, Link was raised by the Kokiri and the Great Deku Tree, all of whom are more inclined to using their magic.

As for Zelda's Lullaby, if only Royal Family members are allowed to learn it, then how did Impa learn it? Nowhere in the game is it mentioned that Impa is related to Zelda by blood.
I think what she meant was more along the lines that common folk would never learn the song, so if some kid from the woods plays this song at you, then it must mean that he's there at the behest of the Royal Family.

Throughout the game, or any of the Zelda games for that matter, the general populace of Hyrule seem to have no idea that Link is all but single-handedly saving the world. As far as most people see, he's just some kid whose going around and helping with little problems. Only Zelda, and companions like Navi and Midna, ever know what's happening on a grander scale. I think if someone were to save your kingdom, you'd be disinclined to let the tale of their deeds fall to the wayside.

As for Zelda finding Link's name familiar, you could give him ridiculous names like "Poopie" or "FGHJK" and she'd still say they were familiar, because that's the way the dialogue was designed.
But to not bring game mechanics into it, it could just be that she subconsciously recognized the name from her prophetic dreams, if she didn't consciously.

MalonsLover - October 4, 2008 06:21 PM (GMT)
Kudos on your post gr33n. Its interesting how the game gives hints that they might be twin siblings but enough doubt to believe that the coincidental similarities could be based on what you posted. But the whole mystery of Link's actual father and Zelda's actual mother is still of great interest. But maybe its better for the Zelinkers sake that they remain a mystery. Also, my thread is based only on OOT Link and Zelda being possible twin siblings. ALTTP, AOL, TP, and WW are irrelevant in this discussion. Anyway take a look at the uncanny physical similarities of OOT Link and Zelda.

Here is OoT Adult Zelda:

user posted image

And here is OoT Adult Link:

user posted image

Basically the difference in the noses would make them fraternal twins and not identical. Unless you were going by Love of Zelda's avy and sig in which Link and Zelda actually look like identical clones. :lol:

gr33n_sl33ves - October 4, 2008 06:39 PM (GMT)
True, they do look alike, but Zelda is more strawberry blond to Link's golden blond, and if going by your insistence that appearances donate a blood connection, then Zelda and Malon could be sisters, or cousins at least, and they would have blood ties to Ganondorf and Nabooru, possibly the whole Gerudo tribe, who are all red heads. For that matter, Ingo and Talon must be brothers, as they look pretty similar too.

MalonsLover - October 4, 2008 06:44 PM (GMT)
Maybe..but since OOT Link and Zelda have TWIN triforces to go along with their physical similarities...well who really knows. But yeah...Talon and Ingo do look like brothers. :lol:

gr33n_sl33ves - October 4, 2008 06:51 PM (GMT)
The thing you seem to be forgetting is that the Triforce comes in three. It's a triplet. And the other piece went to Ganondorf, who I think we can all agree on the fact that he isn't a blood relation of Zelda's. And that being the case, that pretty much says that a blood relation isn't needed to be a bearer of the Triforce, which puts doubt or your sibling theory.

Love_of_Zelda - October 4, 2008 06:52 PM (GMT)
Zelda's mother is shown in the OoT manga - it is a small image, but it clearly shows that Zelda looks to be about three years old. This means that Link and Zelda's mother are obviously not one person, because Link's mother was murdered when Link was a baby. It isn't really possible in that regard that Link and Zelda are twin siblings.

The OoT comic that Nintendo Power released shows Link's father who is a Hylian Knight and is killed in battle. It also shows that Link's father sends his wife away with a newborn-appearing Link.

The King of Hyrule would not have been a Hylian Knight - he might have had the skills of a Hylian Knight (we can't know for sure), but if he was King, he probably would have never been any rank lower than Royal.

I believe that Zelda's Lullaby is not just taught to Royal Family members - obviously Impa has learned it somewhere along the way, and she is in no way related to Zelda. Yet Impa teaches it to Link - I think there is a commonality here, and that is that Zelda's Lullaby is taught only to Zelda's personal protectors, even though they are not related to her. I understand that the game says that the song is taught only to family members, but aren't you basically family when you protect someone's life?

MalonsLover - October 4, 2008 07:05 PM (GMT)
Its pretty much accepted by most Zelda fans/theorists that the King of Hyrule was not a King during the great war. More likely he was involved in the Hyrule military during the war and he could have been at least a high ranking Hyrule Knight. But one thing is for sure, he was not a King at that time. I've never read the OOT Manga or Comics so I don't think it would be appropriate for me to go ITS NOT CANON!!! ARRRGHH!! :angry: as some people do. Like I said, what I posted has more to do with in game hints that OOT Link and Zelda COULD be twin siblings but there is enough doubt that they are not related as well.

To gr33n
Yes but Ganon looks nothing like Link or Zelda. Link and Zelda on the other hand...(Looks at Love of Zelda's avy and sig)

Mandy - October 4, 2008 09:35 PM (GMT)
Yanno I never bought into the whole siblings theory because most of the so-called evidence is mediocre and doesn't leave enough room for substantial doubt. This is coming from me by playing the games; I never even let it cross my mind that the two would be related! The only time I remotely considered it was in ALttP when Link met with his dying uncle and his last words:

"Link...Zelda is your..." and that's it (roughly). Now fit in the word "sister" and see how you feel about it? Kinda deflates the whole thing, if you ask me. But fit in "destiny" and heeey! You got a mysterious and heavy-meaning sentence there huh? But we will never know what his uncle meant regardless. Too bad ;(

As for the OoT manga, I really cannot accept that either. Considering it completely butchered the story...yeah. No dice with me >.< The idea of Link's mom being who she was is an interesting idea, since we know next to nothing about her in the game, but she could've been anyone.

MalonsLover - October 4, 2008 09:55 PM (GMT)
I just made this thread since the sibling theory does exist, I thought I would just throw caution to the wind in hopes to read other peoples opinion on the issue. I really don't personally support it, but if it was revealed that OOT Link and Zelda were fraternal twins I would not be shocked at all.

In a sense, I kind of like the sibling theory mainly because it overwhelmingly favors LinkxMalon. But I don't see Link ruling Hyrule with Malon as his queen though. More likely in this theoretical scenario, Link would probably relinquish his claim to the throne to his twin sister Zelda in a humble and selfless gesture of love to be with Malon and to live with her at Lon Lon ranch as a humble Hero/Knight/Vassal in protecting the land of Hyrule. Link's relationship with Zelda would be as the Triforce Twins working together to maintain peace and prosperity within and throughout the kingdom of Hyrule, and LinkxMalon live happily ever after YAAAY :D

But yeah...there still is more than enough doubt that OOT/MM Link and Zelda are not blood related, but the coincidences in their physical similarities, matching triforces, prophetic dreams, and the vagueness with their parents of the same gender still make me wonder though.

Mandy - October 4, 2008 10:07 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (MalonsLover)
In a sense, I kind of like the sibling theory mainly because it overwhelmingly favors LinkxMalon. But I don't see Link ruling Hyrule with Malon as his queen though. More likely in this theoretical scenario, Link would probably relinquish his claim to the throne to his twin sister Zelda in a humble and selfless gesture of love to be with Malon and to live with her at Lon Lon ranch as a humble Hero/Knight/Vassal in protecting the land of Hyrule.


o.O That's quite an idea there lol. Never considered it that way...but I agree in that I can't really see Link being the kingly type, for the most part. Zelda's better ruling material anyway :D

QUOTE (MalonsLover)
Link's relationship with Zelda would be as the Triforce Twins working together to maintain peace and prosperity within and throughout the kingdom of Hyrule, and LinkxMalon live happily ever after YAAAY :D


Oh man, I just got a hilarious idea in my head xD Imagine Link and Zelda as some super hero duo in funny outfits! "Triforce Twin Powers, activate!" :giggle:


Angel Zelda - October 4, 2008 11:23 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Mandy @ Oct 4 2008, 09:35 PM)
"Link...Zelda is your..." and that's it (roughly). Now fit in the word "sister" and see how you feel about it? Kinda deflates the whole thing, if you ask me. But fit in "destiny" and heeey! You got a mysterious and heavy-meaning sentence there huh? But we will never know what his uncle meant regardless. Too bad ;(

In the Japanese version of ALttP, Link's dying uncle does say, "Zelda is your destiny." I'm not sure why he doesn't finish the sentence in the American version; I heard it was due to a lack of space.

Mandy - October 4, 2008 11:25 PM (GMT)
Lack of space? Lol! Well okay then!

At least one version has all the dialogue ~.~ Better than nothing.

Hylian Princess - October 5, 2008 04:40 PM (GMT)
If you take the "Triforce chosen ones" fact, then wouldn't Ganondorf be their defective uncle or somehow related to them? lol

Back to topic, I'm gonna be evil towards Nintendo and say that they're an evil company trying to drive us crazy!!! But, in reality, it's probably because of lack of space and evil plans, so it's both, I guess...

Angel Zelda - October 5, 2008 05:15 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Hylian Princess @ Oct 5 2008, 04:40 PM)
Back to topic, I'm gonna be evil towards Nintendo and say that they're an evil company trying to drive us crazy!!! But, in reality, it's probably because of lack of space and evil plans, so it's both, I guess...

Hey, I have a question. What game console was the American version of ALttP originally on? Game Boy? Game Boy Color? Because I heard that when Nintendo released ALttP on Game Boy Advanced, they changed Link's dying uncle's dialogue from, "Zelda is your..." to, "I will always remember...our time together..." Which sounds really out of place; wasn't Link's uncle telling him to save Zelda right before that?

EDIT: Okay, I'm watching a video walkthrough of ALttP now (the GBA version), and this is (part of) what Link's uncle says:

QUOTE (Link's Uncle)
Link...you must rescue Princess Zelda. Our people are fated to do so. But do not fall victim... to fate... Link... I shall always remember... our time...together...

So...yeah, Nintendo changed the dialogue for some reason.

MalonsLover - October 5, 2008 05:31 PM (GMT)
Maybe it was a way to deflect the whole sibling theory in ALTTP, or maybe it suggests Link had an inappropriate relationship with his uncle :P

Hylian Princess - October 5, 2008 06:52 PM (GMT)
Yeah. Sure... I hope it was to deflect, though... It'd be weird if Zelda and Link had some romance together, but were TWINS! Ha!

Mandy - October 5, 2008 06:55 PM (GMT)
It happened in Star Wars! Why not Zelda? :P lol

Hylian Princess - October 5, 2008 06:56 PM (GMT)
They didn't love eachother in Star Wars, did they? The girl with dougnut-hair loved that other guy!

Mandy - October 5, 2008 07:46 PM (GMT)
ROFL you mean Leia yes? Well, Leia kissed Luke without knowing they were related, and part of me was joking :D

Angel Zelda - October 5, 2008 08:48 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Hylian Princess @ Oct 5 2008, 06:56 PM)
They didn't love eachother in Star Wars, did they? The girl with dougnut-hair loved that other guy!

Yeah, I know what you're talking about. *whispers* I'm a Luke/Leia shipper myself... :ph43r: *speaks in normal voice* But, anyway, yeah, Luke was in love with Leia before he found out they were siblings, and Leia's feelings towards Luke can be debated. But what made me mad was that there didn't seem to be any resolution to that. Luke and Leia just find out that they're siblings and appear to have anmesia regarding their not so sibling-like behavior. I mean, come on; if I found out that the guy I had romantic feelings for was my own brother, I'd be freaking out.

And now I'm seriously rambling. XD

Hylian Princess - October 5, 2008 09:25 PM (GMT)
Wouldn't we all? :lol: :giggle:

Mandy - October 6, 2008 01:52 AM (GMT)
This is true! But Leia kinda had a rebellion to lead, a certain trader by the name of Han Solo to deal with, as well as God knows what else. And Luke had his whole Jedi training to do, so on and so on ;) Besides I really do not think Lucas is known for his character drama; just look at the first three chapters ~.~ Anakin and Padme? Yeaaah....

Angel Zelda - October 6, 2008 01:56 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Mandy @ Oct 6 2008, 01:52 AM)
Besides I really do not think Lucas is known for his character drama; just look at the first three chapters ~.~ Anakin and Padme? Yeaaah....

Anakin and Padme were fine with me, but I did wonder why Anakin seems so wooden at times during RotS.

gliderpilotgirl - October 6, 2008 01:59 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Angel Zelda @ Oct 5 2008, 05:15 PM)
So...yeah, Nintendo changed the dialogue for some reason.

I'd be willing to bet it was done specifically to deal with this very theory. In all honesty, I've always thought the implied romance throughout the series is the one thing that most strongly speaks against it.
Before OoT we had AoL with Link and Zelda kissing in the end. The notorious cartoon and ALTTP's comic adaptations also confirmed this, or at least put it in the public eye. After OoT/MM we have games like WW and the Oracles that continue this. To me it seems a bit off the wall for them to suddenly replace romance by blood relation, especially considering what the manga and book said and what public perception was likely to be. So in other words, no, I don't think they are related.

MalonsLover - October 6, 2008 03:25 AM (GMT)
I think the sibling theory is more associated with just ALTTP and OOT. In the other Zeldas that I have played (LOZ, AOL, WW, and TP) I never got the impression Link and Zelda were related at all. The ALTTP sibling dillema has been resolved, and as for OOT, the subtle hints and coincidences are there but its not enough to confirm anything in stone. So up to this point, the popular consensus seems to be that Link and Zelda in OOT/MM are not related, but if it was somehow revealed that they were I would not be in total shock at all.

Twilight Mistress - October 8, 2008 02:46 AM (GMT)
First of all, I do not believe that Nintendo would want to imply to certain audiences that there is any form of incest in the games, especially with the knowledge that the games apply to all ages, children and adults alike. Being that Zelda is seen as another "love interest", Nintendo could not have possibly intended to label them as siblings. Therefore, the notion that Link and Zelda are somehow related acts only as yet another excuse to embellish the pairing between MaLink (or other pairings, if any). There is no actual evidence to support this theory, as careful systematic observation of phenotypes, that is, the observation of physical traits, cannot determine whether or not they share the same genes; two people can have similar characteristics and not be related to one another. People can also share similar backgrounds in the sense that they are missing the same parent; it is by mere chance. Again, this cannot be proven due to limited observations present. Finally, the fact that Link and Zelda are both Hylians is not enough to even point towards the so-call theory of them being "siblings". Technically Malon is a Hylian; does that make them related? Same things applies to Link and Zelda.


MalonsLover - October 8, 2008 03:02 AM (GMT)
Not necessarily. The twin sibling theory is just that. A THEORY. The sibling theorists go with in game coincidences in Link and Zelda's similar physical appearance, similar matching triforces, similar prophetic dreams, similar vagueness on the parent of the same gender, hints in actual in game dialogue and so on. In regard to the Hylian thing, Malon and Zelda look nothing alike. Link and Zelda on the other hand do look alike. Not identical, but enough to infer that Link and Zelda could possibly be fraternal twins at least.

Based on my research, its a theory thats been around since the game was released in the 90's so its not new by any means. So unless Nintendo has an official statement on the closure of OOT Link and Zelda's actual parents, I don't see the sibling theory going away anytime soon. As for referencing incest, there is no canonnical proof whatsoever that OOT Link and Zelda ever had a romantic relationship for theoretical incest to be committed in the first place.

Twilight Mistress - October 8, 2008 10:40 AM (GMT)
As I said in my previous post, you cannot determine whether they are related by their characteristics. That's like turning to the next person on the street that possesses similar traits and saying that they are related to you. Also, just because Malon has red hair doesn't mean anything. First of all, not all siblings appear to possess similar traits. Secondly, even if both parents had blonde or brown hair, they could still end up with a kid with red hair simply because they are a carrier of a particular gene. And, since we are on the subject of twins, not all twins look the same, either. Fraternal twins do not look exactly the same.

Okay, then we could say the same thing about Malon. Malon doesn't have a mother either -- neither does Link. Malon loves life and loves animals -- so does Link. There is no proof that there are any romantic ties between Malon. Just because she calls him "fairyboy" does not mean that she feels anything towards him; she's just being friendly as she is with others as well. So I guess they must be siblings then, huh? The point that I'm trying to get across is that you cannot determine whether two people are siblings by their physical traits OR by their personality traits. The only way to determine such things is by deriving evidence from genetics. Until then, which is exceptionally futile while all other evidence points towards different family backgrounds for Link and Zelda, the so-called "theory" is just another way to embellish other pairings with Link.

gliderpilotgirl - October 8, 2008 02:47 PM (GMT)
QUOTE

Based on my research, its a theory thats been around since the game was released in the 90's so its not new by any means. So unless Nintendo has an official statement on the closure of OOT Link and Zelda's actual parents, I don't see the sibling theory going away anytime soon. As for referencing incest, there is no canonnical proof whatsoever that OOT Link and Zelda ever had a romantic relationship for theoretical incest to be committed in the first place.


I recall hearing before that the purpose of the manga was something along the lines of "deepening the story and characters of the game", so basically to elaborate on what was already there. ( barring a few changes for story-telling purposes ). Saying that, it should be clear that Link and Zelda in OoT do not share the same mother. Or father. Yes, I'm aware that people will throw the "non-canon!" label out there, but they are not the ones who determine canon.
The manga ( The Akira Himekawa ones ) had no less than Aonuma apparently as the consultant: this is the same guy who would eventually head the Zelda development section.
Anyways, summary. We have a trustworthy source that asserts they are not brother and sister. That's enough for me.

MalonsLover - October 8, 2008 03:59 PM (GMT)
TWILIGHT MISTRESS SAID:
Also, just because Malon has red hair doesn't mean anything. First of all, not all siblings appear to possess similar traits. Secondly, even if both parents had blonde or brown hair, they could still end up with a kid with red hair simply because they are a carrier of a particular gene. And, since we are on the subject of twins, not all twins look the same, either. Fraternal twins do not look exactly the same.


I agree. So are you actually implying that Link and Zelda are identical twins?? :huh: (Confused) Anyway..Malon doesn't have blond hair, a triforce or prophetic dreams, so futilly trying to connect her to be a theoretical twin sibling to Link or Zelda is just obvious emotional frustration on your part.

There is no proof that there are any romantic ties between Malon.

Again I agree. There is no proof of OOT/MM Link having romantic ties to anyone. Zelda included.

the so-called "theory" is just another way to embellish other pairings with Link.

Once again I agree. And until Nintendo can make a statement on closure to the actual identity of Link's dad and Zelda's mom the twin sibling theory will persist to exist.

TO GILDERPILOT: I don't think its my place to say that the Mangas are not canon. The fact of the matter is that many Zelda fans, Zelinkers included, dismiss it as such.

I have a trustworthy source as well. I also found this within the dialogue in OOT from one of the composer bros.

What? You again?
Somehow, you remind me of...
Princess Zelda...
Hmm... Since you may have some
connection with the Royal Family, I
will tell you a little more of our
tale.
Back then, people called us great
composers because of the many
musical masterpieces we wrote.
But we brothers were not just
composers.
We had a mission to analyze the
mysterious powers of Hyrule's
Royal Family.


Hint hint. Link and Zelda's similar prophetic dreams in relation to their posession of similar triforces. This is not made up. It actually is verbatum in game dialogue.

Mandy - October 8, 2008 06:18 PM (GMT)
@gliderpilotgirl: The only people who <3 the mangas are those who love to scarf down fluff, particularly shoujo/Zelink fluff. To those who see otherwise and actually enjoy true game canon, the mangas are just that: fluff. Nothing more and nothing less.

I personally don't care who authorized the mangas or who said that the purpose of them was to "further elaborate" the story; they still hold no validity to me. So Nintendo threw the fans a bone in the form of a manga, big deal. Perhaps if the storyboarding was better I'd appreciate it more.

@Twilight Mistress: But see, applying the sibling theory to Malon, is silly. Unlike between Zelda and Link, which has potential to be true, between Malon and Link it does not. I cannot fathom any sort of in-game connotations hinting that such a theory could apply to those two.

gliderpilotgirl - October 8, 2008 07:10 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Mandy @ Oct 8 2008, 06:18 PM)
@gliderpilotgirl: The only people who <3 the mangas are those who love to scarf down fluff, particularly shoujo/Zelink fluff. To those who see otherwise and actually enjoy true game canon, the mangas are just that: fluff. Nothing more and nothing less.

I personally don't care who authorized the mangas or who said that the purpose of them was to "further elaborate" the story; they still hold no validity to me. So Nintendo threw the fans a bone in the form of a manga, big deal. Perhaps if the storyboarding was better I'd appreciate it more.

@Twilight Mistress: But see, applying the sibling theory to Malon, is silly. Unlike between Zelda and Link, which has potential to be true, between Malon and Link it does not. I cannot fathom any sort of in-game connotations hinting that such a theory could apply to those two.

Only those who like to scarf down fluff? That's not true. There are many fans who don't have an interest in romance that like it. Case in point below.

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/articles/zeld...hapters-review/
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/articles/zeld...hapters-review/

It's also being released in English: likely because of demand for it.

As for it being canon, I've seen many comments about it, usually from people not liking the direction the story took. Does it matter though? I consider it to be true to the "spirit of the game" and I think Nintendo's presence in overseeing it was to ensure precisely that. As for the romance, many people see OoT as being canonly ZeLink. To see it reflected in the official comic adaptation shouldn't be a surprise.
Even dealing with canon: what makes it canon? The presence of Nintendo to supervise it? ( check ) Nintendo's stamp of approval? ( check ) The only difference between it and a game is that they weren't Nintendo employees writing it, just artists being supervised by them.

Overall, I think people are paying this theory too much mind. I really feel common sense debunks it best. As for them having similar powers/ prophetic dreams, I think a vital and central theme is being ignored and that's destiny/fate.
If you want proof, look at WW. Link has no connection to the previous hero, yet he's chosen as the new one. I think people focus too much on bloodlines in this game. Link and Zelda don't have to be related to be chosen.

MalonsLover - October 8, 2008 07:40 PM (GMT)
The thing is WW has nothing to do with this discussion. But for the record its well accepted as canon that WW Link was descended from OOT Zelda and a mystery Hyrule nobleman/prince? since Link went back to the Child Timeline with his virginity still intact. I recall that it was referenced in the game that WW Link was descended from a sage. Obviously it was Zelda, so the bloodline in WW is relevant but has nothing to do with the bloodline of OOT Link as you stated.

I think you make valid points on the mangas trying to maintain the spirit of the games and all, but the bottom line is since MM ends the CT its relatively unknown who Link ends up with period.

So far my conclusion is that there has yet to be a valid arguement to debunk the twin sibling theory. Your opinion on common sense is not enough I'm afraid. But at the same time there is no valid arguement to debunk Link and Zelda not being related either.

Mandy - October 8, 2008 11:55 PM (GMT)
it's also being released in English: likely because of demand for it.

You forget it was ten years of "demand" for this manga to come stateside :rolleyes: Gee, that's a lot isn't it? It really came down to which publisher would actually bother to pick it up rather than demand from the fans. That's how I see it. Besides translations have been on the internet for years by Anna/Melora as well as ZeldaLegends.net. It was easy to read the mangas for fans.

As for it being canon, I've seen many comments about it, usually from people not liking the direction the story took. Does it matter though? I consider it to be true to the "spirit of the game" and I think Nintendo's presence in overseeing it was to ensure precisely that.

Of course it matters! Why would I want to read a manga that obliterates an already great story in a already great game? Perhaps if I wanna douse my brain in bleach with shoujo-y stuff that isn't even on par with good storytelling I've seen in other shoujo manga. "Spirit of the game" my foot <_< If that were true it's be an action-packed story with actual dungeon-delving in it! The whole purpose of LoZ is puzzles and finding items in dungeons; do we see plenty of that in the manga? Nope! Spirit, indeed.

Even dealing with canon: what makes it canon?

Easy question: what ever happens in the game, happened in true story progression and timeline. There's your answer.

If you want proof, look at WW. Link has no connection to the previous hero, yet he's chosen as the new one. I think people focus too much on bloodlines in this game.

Considering that ALttP, OoT, TP and AoL all make an effort to mention the blood of the Hero, yes you'd think that this is important. WW Link may have no direct connection to the Hero of Time but he obviously has the same "stuff" that is needed to be the Hero so in some regard he is connected but perhaps in spirit.

gliderpilotgirl - October 9, 2008 12:59 AM (GMT)
QUOTE


You forget it was ten years of "demand" for this manga to come stateside :rolleyes: Gee, that's a lot isn't it? It really came down to which publisher would actually bother to pick it up rather than demand from the fans. That's how I see it. Besides translations have been on the internet for years by Anna/Melora as well as ZeldaLegends.net. It was easy to read the mangas for fans.


*Sigh*. Look, there are obviously people who want it: VizKids put good money into buying the copyright, paying a translator and then money to print it. The problem is likely that it's unknown, not that it's terrible. A huge amount of fans don't even know what a manga is, let alone that there is an OoT one.

Obliterates? How so? They gave Link a personality. Okay, that was necessary. They added romance. Okay, also a good idea: Link and Zelda are the best known and easiest to fit in with what the game already offered. Other changes: done for storytelling potential. That's the same reason they didn't go through each dungeon in detail: it would make a crappy story. Stories need people, not static settings. The standard 3:5 ratio of dungeons and added sidequests are not going to make a story without some extension.

QUOTE


Considering that ALttP, OoT, TP and AoL all make an effort to mention the blood of the Hero, yes you'd think that this is important. WW Link may have no direct connection to the Hero of Time but he obviously has the same  "stuff" that is needed to be the Hero so in some regard he is connected but perhaps in spirit.


"Perhaps in spirit" could well be destiny. All seem to have that in common, blood connections not withstanding. ( Even ALTTP Link's uncle remarks on fate, and "their people being fated to do so." [to rescue Zelda] )
Even if the heroes are blood related, what bearing does it have on this debate?

Mandy - October 9, 2008 01:25 AM (GMT)
Obliterates? How so? They gave Link a personality. Okay, that was necessary. They added romance. Okay, also a good idea: Link and Zelda are the best known and easiest to fit in with what the game already offered. Other changes: done for storytelling potential. That's the same reason they didn't go through each dungeon in detail: it would make a crappy story. Stories need people, not static settings. The standard 3:5 ratio of dungeons and added sidequests are not going to make a story without some extension.

True, he was given a personality and doing so was a real hit-and-miss; everyone envisions Link differently (I know I do compared to how he's portrayed in the manga). And I'm not saying they had to do a manga with 90% dungeon delving to make the manga more accurate; if done right it CAN be accomplished with just as much entertainment as any other filler. It would be more difficult, sure, but instead the OoT manga gave too much fluff, not enough substance to keep me entertained. I can only imagine how difficult it is to write and draw that out in a coherent manga, but given that Akira Himekawa was hired by Nintendo...I expected higher quality.

"Perhaps in spirit" could well be destiny. All seem to have that in common, blood connections not withstanding. ( Even ALTTP Link's uncle remarks on fate, and "their people being fated to do so." [to rescue Zelda] )
Even if the heroes are blood related, what bearing does it have on this debate?


*shrug* I don't know, it came up? Having it mentioned doesn't surprise me considering that any future Hero related to an ancestor hero coupled with the Princess would leave room to argue that descendants are committing a type of distantly related incest :P But I digress...

gliderpilotgirl - October 9, 2008 02:06 AM (GMT)
QUOTE


True, he was given a personality and doing so was a real hit-and-miss; everyone envisions Link differently (I know I do compared to how he's portrayed in the manga). And I'm not saying they had to do a manga with 90% dungeon delving to make the manga more accurate; if done right it CAN be accomplished with just as much entertainment as any other filler. It would be more difficult, sure, but instead the OoT manga gave too much fluff, not enough substance to keep me entertained. I can only imagine how difficult it is to write and draw that out in a coherent manga, but given that Akira Himekawa was hired by Nintendo...I expected higher quality.


Fair enough. I can totally understand that: if you pictured Link differently, than it just wouldn't mesh with what you had previously imagined. I personally didn't have a huge impression of him at that point when I read the manga, so that became how I saw him.
Again, it depends on the reader. My own comic background comes from being a Marvel fan, and I'm fairly well versed in their superhero comics. As so, I've seen alot of "action filler" comics, defined by all fighting, little drama. A comic like the OoT manga impressed me with the depth and feeling they put into Link and Zelda rather than by focusing on just action. Compared to a large amount of the comics I've read, it's a step above.

QUOTE

*shrug* I don't know, it came up? Having it mentioned doesn't surprise me considering that any future Hero related to an ancestor hero coupled with the Princess would leave room to argue that descendants are committing a type of distantly related incest :P But I digress...



Seen that one before too. But even if the Hero and Princess have bloodlines that merge at some points ( their marriage ) it doesn't bother me. Simply because of the amounts of time we are dealing with...hundreds of years typically. That would make them like, 10th+ cousins. So for all purposes, they don't have a close enough relation to count, let alone be incest. ( That's more like within a generation or two. ) The genetics just are too different after all that time.
It also explains how such a different lifestyle can be found in each descendant...common royal ancestors would have children who became nobility as they grew away from the ruling line, and eventually they would be commoners.




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