Let's hear it!

13 Feb 09, 00:20
Rosabella: Basically, it's what Sky said- Plots. I mean... I started out with two draconics; The dreaming egg and Anthem. Anthem is going to have two kids, one as a "fling" and one as the love of his life. Aysun is going to have one kid. Oh, look, there's my limit- Even though Aysun's two kids might want to have kids.
13 Feb 09, 00:21
Rosabella: I was thinking that, since he wanted it to be like family- There could be a ridiculously high loyalty cap with /each and every draconic/ before you can get another. 'Cause the harachiu were supposed to be kids, and their loyalty cap for each and every one is 30.
Rosabella: Since draconics are quite a bit more intensive...Maybe a loyalty of 50, so you know the people who go over the cap really had a reason to.

Above is the nutshell version of my argument- Below is the entire debate. Read from bottom to top.

13 Feb 09, 00:05
Rosabella: Has Spirit ever given a reason? Who knows, with the revamp, he might.
13 Feb 09, 00:04
Dylan: Kyle: Bottom line is that users have tried before to get the limit changed, it failed, Spirit said no, he probably won't change it any time soon
13 Feb 09, 00:03
Rosabella: Not neccessarily. Go read personal descriptions; There isn't any guidelines set like in kennels or the park.
13 Feb 09, 00:03
Jarad: Alright Rosa ^^ Then have fun sleeping =)
13 Feb 09, 00:03
Dylan: Kyle: Think of the cave as an apartment, you're just one room in a giant building
13 Feb 09, 00:02
Rosabella: I'm about to go to bed myself, Jarad...I just got on to stalk something really fast...
13 Feb 09, 00:02
Jarad: *Pops in* Rosa should post before she sleeps.. XD Sorry Dylan, I will post tomarrow I promise ^^ I need to sleep now though x.o night everyone
13 Feb 09, 00:02
Rosabella: I assume the hole is as big as you want the hole to be.
13 Feb 09, 00:01
Dylan: Tahts exactly the point Rosa you don't know how large that hole is at all.
13 Feb 09, 00:01
Rosabella: Here's the entire Rosabella plot with her Draconics. Aysun is like a replacement for her mother- Aysun has a child, it becomes more or less both Aysun and Rosabella's kid. Anthem is like her dad replacement, his first kid is her sibling replacement, the second her other sibling.
13 Feb 09, 00:00
Pre: Ah well, as fun as this is..I've gotta sleep xP.... Rosa, if you really think this should happen, post it in the suggestions thread...personally I disagree, but I'm also not active with draconics...soo *shrugs*. Night all...
12 Feb 09, 23:59
Rosabella: They are like family to me, which is why I want to be able to have more...If I train my five to a certain point, I'll just give up, because there's just no point to something that won't go anywhere.
12 Feb 09, 23:58
Rosabella: Think about it, though. It doesn't say how large your cave is. It just says you found it in a big wall. Who's to say it couldn't hold more than 5?
12 Feb 09, 23:58
Pre: Yeah..like I said...there were attempts to keep that in check...but apparently any time that Spirit tries to keep things reasonable....well...it upsets people xP
12 Feb 09, 23:58
Dylan: Kyle: Well Spirit's reasoning behind draconics is that hey are Family, not pets. You wouldn't exactly pimp out family members till you had a million of them, hence the limit
12 Feb 09, 23:58
Pre: Also..I feel like since there is already a loyalty limit set on the whole bonding (with non-dream draconics) that it'd be odd to have another loyalty thing..though I'm sure that could work out if Spirit wanted *shrugs*
12 Feb 09, 23:57
Rosabella: Then, in an in character sense, the MML system doesn't make sense. The warehouse has to run out of room- Go look at some of the kennels of the people who've been here awhile.
12 Feb 09, 23:57
Pre: Well, for people who would like more than 1 egg from their clutches though, that really wouldnt' be terribly fair...plus I think that from an in character perspective the current system makes sense...
12 Feb 09, 23:56
Rosabella: What if you were already planning on doing that with clutches anyway?
12 Feb 09, 23:55
Pre: Well, like I said..you'd get 1 kid at a time then...and have to what, wait a week or two of roleplaying in order to get the second egg from a clutch?
12 Feb 09, 23:55
Rosabella: Pre- Tell me what's wrong with a high loyalty limit, to add one draconic to the family if all are at that loyalty. It could be completely optional, but also for people who want the chance to let the second gens have kids.
12 Feb 09, 23:53
Pre: I'm just saying though, there is plenty of precedent for limiting the amount of creatures in a specific place..and the only real exception made was for things that cost money.....and then it was kind of tossed out because people got very annoyed by it *shrugs*
12 Feb 09, 23:53
Dylan: Anyone have a Lashak first gen that would be willing to mate with my Galathan Orrell?
12 Feb 09, 23:53
Rosabella: Aysun would probably only have her kid as it is. It's mostly Anthem and his kids, because /they're/ not getting soul bonded and only have eachother when Rosabella and Aysun go to the Barracks.
12 Feb 09, 23:53
Pre: No, but they are free, like LEs....actually, really, LEs cost $1...so yeah xP
12 Feb 09, 23:52
Pre: But anyways...like I said, that' sonly if you can't possibly find any other way to cut back...
12 Feb 09, 23:52
Rosabella: So...Draconics that you breed, and are limited to only you...Are the same as LEs?
12 Feb 09, 23:52
Pre: Well, you can at the very least stick first gen ones in journals, etc...but as far as offspring go you'd probably have to check with Ashe or something...
12 Feb 09, 23:51
Dylan: Kyle: True Pre XD
12 Feb 09, 23:51
Rosabella: And then I just feel guilty...Taking the images and sticking them in my journal, and only roleplaying them in misc? That's not the family love I had thought of. (Is that even allowed?)
12 Feb 09, 23:51
Pre: I did Ky xP..but I doubt I was your target audience xD
12 Feb 09, 23:50
Dylan: Its okay Sky :3 -continues search for a Lashak-
12 Feb 09, 23:50
Pre: Well, yeah, he wasn't going to limit things you paid for....but houses are limited, and he did try to limit ridiculous numbers of LEs in kennels...
12 Feb 09, 23:50
Skylark: Thanks for the offer, but I've stuck with him for so long I don't think I could give the big guy up. <3
12 Feb 09, 23:50
Pre: Also, for people who absolutely -can't- limit themselves...I'm pretty sure you could keep them off-site...and keep them in misc. plots, etc. *shrugs*
12 Feb 09, 23:49
Dylan: Kyle: -Cough- Did aanyone notice my comment below? XD
12 Feb 09, 23:49
Rosabella: No- He only tried to limit kennels with pets that weren't custom or offspring.
12 Feb 09, 23:49
Dylan: Well if you're looking for a good home for the LAshak (formerly the red draconic) then maybe I could be of help :3
12 Feb 09, 23:49
Pre: And Spirit tried to limit kennels at one point too..but everyone had fits about it...so he undid it... and chances are people will gradually start getting rid of older draconics for newer ones, Kitsu...just like people did with orbaru once they stopped being breedable...
12 Feb 09, 23:48
Skylark: Ah, I think so Dylan. xD I haven't memorized the names yet. XP
12 Feb 09, 23:47
Pre: I dont' know...honestly I feel like there are creative ways to address the limit, in character, and as "limiting" as it maybe...it depends how you react to that....
12 Feb 09, 23:47
Dylan: GIant fire breathing!? Would this be a Lashak Sky?
12 Feb 09, 23:47
Kitsu: But most of the active members are complaining about full canyons already, Pre.
12 Feb 09, 23:47
Rosabella: But what if the people you trust run out of room, too? As I said...The "add one draconic" could be optional, but for people who really want it...(Think about it. Kennels get cramped too. Everyone's stuck in one big warehouse.)
12 Feb 09, 23:46
Skylark: What makes me sad is that I have three gen1 draconics I don't want to get rid of. Two of them have mates. That leaves my last one sort of left out... Sure, I could make Skylark shove him into Ret's care, but my second character doesn't go as well with a giant fire-breather...
12 Feb 09, 23:46
Dylan: Kyle: What you just said is false, in the breeding between my and Kitzu's draconics we gave our extra to Kheisha, as we had planned before the babies came, no objections were raised
12 Feb 09, 23:46
Pre: Oh wait...nevermind xP...sometimes I forget they can't breed within your thing...xD
12 Feb 09, 23:46
Pre: Except that extra babies get adopted in the rookery, Kitsu, and then those have babies in different canyons...and Rosa, if the 2 are different genders maybe make Aysun the parent ofone of Anthem's or something?
12 Feb 09, 23:45
Kitsu: If people can only have five Draco pcs each, the whole thing probably isn't gonna get past gen. 4. x3;
12 Feb 09, 23:45
Pre: I belieive you could specifically say so-and-so gets the 3rd baby...or something, just like with any other breeding..though, I could be mistaken...
12 Feb 09, 23:44
Rosabella: You don't have a choice who the offspring goes to, Dylan- The way I understand it, all unclaimed go to the Rookery. So who's to say it goes to someone who just roleplayed the once in the Rookery and never does again?
12 Feb 09, 23:44
Pre: Yeah, being the way you're doing it is more 2 separate families...it is hard to fit a lot..just like if you had 2 families living together, space would be cramped...
12 Feb 09, 23:43
Skylark: But unless those babies go to a close friend you can plot with... they're gone.
12 Feb 09, 23:43
Rosabella: I'd just want one from each generation- There's a reason Anthem has two, and Aysun was going to have one. But then there's my limit and the kids can't have kids.
12 Feb 09, 23:42
Dylan: Not necessarily Rosa, for you can still breed after the limit is reached and distribute the offspring to those who have room for a few more draconics therefore making a large extended family :3
12 Feb 09, 23:42
Pre: Well..it depends on the number from each generation you'd want....and of course, second characters give some people a slight advantage there...but *shrugs*...it could limit plots a bit..but then, if you try, I'm sure it could -inspire- plots as well, given the different living arrangments...*shrugs*
12 Feb 09, 23:41
Dylan: I think the Draconic limit is good sice you're only allowed one cave and if you get up to six big dragons then it really would get cramped
12 Feb 09, 23:40
Rosabella: It just...Ruins plots for me. We can create plots with the parents, but the kids are pretty much stuck forever as "barren", or as bad parents because they abandon all of their kids.
12 Feb 09, 23:40
Dylan: Hey Rosa
12 Feb 09, 23:39
Pre: Personally..I sort of like the limit..but I've always been odd in liking fewer pets I guess xP....*shrugs* just seems to make sense though, very few families have more than 5 of the family in one house...
12 Feb 09, 23:39
Rosabella: Hi Dylan
12 Feb 09, 23:38
Dylan: Hola
12 Feb 09, 23:38
Pre: Not if you have room....you could easily have 1 parent and 4 babies from that clutch...but *shrugs*
12 Feb 09, 23:37
Rosabella: If we start out with more than just one draconic, it already works like that...
12 Feb 09, 23:37
Rosabella: Aren't we limited to that, really, already?
12 Feb 09, 23:36
Pre: Which would then limit you to only getting one child from each clutch....
12 Feb 09, 23:35
Rosabella: That way, you still have to love them as your family to do that...And that way the kidlets don't get depressed because they can't have kids and their kin is stuck forever.
12 Feb 09, 23:34
Rosabella: My opinion- It works exactly like the Harachiu, give or take loyalty requirement. Once all are loyalty whatever, you're allowed one more draconic.
12 Feb 09, 23:32
Skylark: The draconics are like family... a family of 6 is a little crowded. But families still grow...
12 Feb 09, 23:31
Rosabella: Right. Like, I have two- My dreaming egg and Anthem. Once Anthem has his two kids, and Aysun has one- My limit is full and their kids can't do anything.
12 Feb 09, 23:31
Kitsu: Because... I really want more than five. Because... My two already have mates, what about their babies?
12 Feb 09, 23:29
Rosabella: Like...Seth does. All of your harachiu have to be loyalty 30 before you can get another. If he worries so much; Why not do the same thing with draconics?
12 Feb 09, 23:29
Kitsu: Agreed with rosa.
12 Feb 09, 23:28
Rosabella: Exactly. I mean...Once you hit the limit...It's like there's no point anymore; You can't do anything else. Someone should suggest a loyalty cap.
12 Feb 09, 23:27
Skylark: Everyone who wants to breed probably runs out of room. x.o
12 Feb 09, 23:27
Obsidion: I totally would breed them more if there wasn't a 5-Draconic restriction... *sighs and goes off again*
12 Feb 09, 23:26
Kyle: Nobody ever breeds draconics ^^;

No, no no no no no.

Never raise the limit.

First of all Draconics are your family within the canyon correct? Well then why the hell would you want to pimp them out just so you can have more frakkin children that you have little time enough to rp for? Draconics will turn into the new orbaru. Remember how many generations there were supposed to be? And do you remember how many generations there actually were? The last thing I want to see is caves filled with babies that never get roleplayed like the orbaru. And I'm not saying having that many orbaru is bad, I'm just saying that people will breed simply to breed, and then they'll sell the children for ridiculously high prices, after all who needs the rookery when you can just sell them to another user?

Another point made by Ri, why in your right mind would you need more than five big-ass dragons. You really don't, hell you don't even need five small-ass little dragons.

Another issue that was brought up was plots within the family. Is it so ridiculous that the parents reserve visitation rights? I mean really just because the parents don't have room in their own caves doesn't mean they don't care. (Besides then maybe we could have court cases on Xroads...BUM BUM BUM)

Finally another point that was made was "Well what if we want our second generation or third generations to have babies?". Well first of all you can replace draconics in your cave. Secondly no one ever said that they couldn't breed, you just can't have them and breed them. The people that gain them from the rookery can still breed them. Is it not okay for someone else to gain use of your oh so exclusive bloodline and use it as they see fit cause it's their draconic?

Personally I am a firm believer in the Rookery. I have actually planned a future breeding with my drconic Merrow in that the other parent receives their share of the offspring while my own share go to the rookery. And when they get to the rookery they'll probably be snatched up by a lovely active user, I have full faith in Ashe's decisions, and then rped as such so that Merrow may visit with his children and his grandchildren, or hell even his great grandchildren.

I, personally, would like a limit...

5 is very few, and doesn't give you much room to do much. Sometimes, one clutch, and you're full...

And I understand that Draconics are supposed to be your 'babies' and 'friends', not your 'pets'...

But I have more than 5 cousins. I have more than 5 friends. My grandparents had more than 5 kids.

I've seen more and more people turn down the chance at relationships with other Draconics, just because they can't 'afford' to have the babies in their keeps. I, personally, have had to give away babies I wanted because I had 'no room'. I'd imagine that my Kodakai, who is a clever fellow, would be very sad to give his babies up to the 'orphanage' for some stranger to pick up. You would be sad if I forced you to give up your babies, right? (This of course, is not always the case. Some Draconics would want to give their babies to new homes and all...)

There are so many beautiful and interesting Draconics out there. New kinds are developing as it is, right? It kind of sucks to have to get rid of a Draconic you like for one that you like just a little more, right? How do you pick and choose so few to be the only ones you can ever have? It was nice when there were only 7 kinds of Draconics - but now there are going to be more and babies, too!

I am AGAINST a 'loyalty requirement'. Unfortunately - that's not as good of a system as it should be. All that does is make people want to make small, uninteresting posts to 'make the requirement real fast', and gives those of us who want to have long, intensive posts and roleplays the short end of the stick.

If people know 'I can get my Kitava up to level 30, then get more babies! :D' they'll post just to get more babies. Then, people will just post that much, so they can have more babies... and maybe even start 'collecting'.

In short, I feel that making some sort of requirement on it kind of ruins the 'feel' of it all, too. Draconics and hatchlings and babies are no longer 'friends' and 'family' - but 'requirements'. Something that people can get to that level, just to get 'what's new and cool' and then leave them to sit and do nothing afterward.

I am sort of at a strange point... I want there to be able to have more Draconics - but not so many that they are no longer special to the users. I want enough space to have a family, maybe a 'first gen' or two, and then each a few of their offspring - which is really hard to do with only 5 spaces to work with. However, I don't think that every Draconic needs to breed and bring more babies into the house, just so those babies can breed and make an insanely large family, either.

So, in short, I AM for a small increase in the number of Draconics you can get - however, I am NOT for the idea that you could, with 'x number' posts, get an 'unlimited' amount.

Let me point out the flaw in your plan, Kyle- You've completely thrown out the fact I asked for loyalty caps. You have to get each and every single one of your draconics to a certain loyalty before you can even have one more.

Which still leaves babies that go to the Rookery, does it not? People don't have to give up their children's babies to people they don't even know will really play with it... It's not the bloodline.

Honestly. Everyone, except the people who get special Dreaming Egg colorations(Which, really in essence, is the first "offspring"...It's just differently colored than the readily available ones) starts out with the same thing. Bloodlines aren't the issue.

It's the people who want their draconics kids to have plots- And maybe have a larger family.

It's not likely people will get very far over the five limit with a large loyalty cap- After a point, people will be happy. And all the draconics will be cared for, because... Loyalty 50. Or 30. With every single draconic you own. Is not neglecting.

Perhaps it would be prudent of me to give you an idea of what I had in mind when I thought up of the draconics, other than just "dragons would be cool to have, people like dragons."..

First - I only wanted people to have one dragon - their bonded. Somebody that would share their very soul with them. A friend, a family member, only more than that - so much more. Never to be considered a "pet" by any means, not even those with less in brain-power.

Second - I realized my users' need to "collect".. Oh my god, this is a collecting game, just as much as it is a roleplaying game. As such, I decided to allow the users to have more than one (but only one bonded) - never letting go of the fact that ALL Draconics are to be treated like family. They are, after all, all sentient - and only living with you by their own choice.

Why five? Because that allows you (basically) to have one bonded, their mate, and two babies... Wait - that's four.. how about one more for good measure, right? Yeah - that's one extra just for fun.. generous, right?

Oh - I didn't answer your question yet? Why five? It's not just a matter of space - but keep in mind that the canyon is not a place of infinate space.. you have a cave, not a cavern without walls... True - the warehous of the kennels is infiniate (really, he uses sub-dimensional portals)... But.. honestly - Five huuuge, all-powerful fire-breathing dragons is quite enough. Dragons are more powerful than creatures.. even more-so than Lab created beasts (generally speaking).. The Draconics aren't meant to be collected - they're meant to be family.

Want to extend your family? Good! Great! Wonderful! Your bonded, their mate, and their children can live together.. and when the children grow up - they MOVE OUT... That doesn't mean that the children will stay forever as will the grand-children and the aunts and uncles and cousins and twice-removed best friends of said cousins... dont' get rediculous now..

But, but.. I want all my babies! No. Sorry. See, another wonderful thing about Draconic breedings - is that not only are they FREE, but everyone has a chance to a special draconic right from the start.. You can either adopt one from the web-site, or adopt one from the hatchery here on the X-roads.. I expect there to be a lot of breedings where people decide they don't want to take home babies at all... Why would a draconic do this? To not only help continue the line of their people (they are a dying race) - but to help strengthen the pact between draconic and man alike.. The best way to do this is to allow their children to be in the hands of those who will one day bond with them.. or so they can hope.

What about dreaming eggs? Okay - for starters, the dreaming eggs only hatch because they are part of you.. They are your hopes, your dreams, your heart, and your soul.. of course they are bonded immediately - they're bonded before they even hatch!!!

In the future, we may allow "dreaming shifts".. that is.. your dreams.. they have potential to change, do they not? As such, you may be able to order an additional "draconic" in teh future - and that draconic will replace your current dreaming draconic in image and form only (it's heart, mind, etc - would remain the same).

Loyalty = more? ... I'm sorry.. just because I love you does not mean I'm going to let your whole posse move into my 2-bedroom appartment...

**********

EDIT:

I know it's a fantasy world and all that, and you can "be what you want to be" without limitations, etc.. but honestly.. just think about the kennels.. How many people, really.. would have 100+ pets.. be able to afford to feed and water them, play with them every day so they didn't die of loneliness or become feral, clean out their shit, etc..? If you think about it - almost every single user has a ZOO... that they single-handedly take care of... or not. Okay, honestly - nobody actually takes care of it.. they just throw critters in a cement box, and play with a select few, leaving the rest to rot... The humane society would have a fit. Honestly.

What would your character (honestly) do if they met a dragon..? This is a creature with the mental capacity far beyond your own, magical - and can eat you in less than single bite, and no effort at all... And you're wasting it's time... Honestly - what would you do..? Then - let's pretend it says, "Hello, my name is Kathamek - I've come to make an alliance, mortal."... What would you honestly do..? I can just imagine the answers now.

Then,after what you said, let me point out one thing- Make my argument with that- And then change my argument earlier.

So...After a point...We give away the children or the parents we worked so hard with...? Then it's just depressing.

"Oh, HI, we love you but we want your kids to move into our house so we're kicking you to a complete stranger we don't even know who will hopefully bring you to come see us. We don't know if they will. But we can hope!"

Because...You leave the option of the kids moving out; To the kids going to another person altogether. There's no place where we can still roleplay with them- Even if they're not our own anymore. There's no guarantee the new owner would keep anything about them.

So, I agree with Silver- Allow for a bit more space, if not a whole lot more, for people who want more than just five people in their family.

Don't all parents kick their children out eventually though? Heck if some babies don't get kicked out soon enough they get eaten o.o

That's only in America; In old Indian tribes, Grandparents, parents, kids would all be in the same house. Other countries still function that way.

And - as most books, mythologies, etc have dragons portrayed - they make their clutch, and leave them as soon as they're able to fly (which is in a matter of weeks).

That's not how draconics are, but still - you could easily turn that point around.

But...You emphasize family... There's, in my family, a grandfather- His sister- His sister's daughter, husband, and her four kids(all either just out of college, in college, or finishing high school) living in one house. It works, because they're helping eachother out.

They'd never dream of turning their own family away due to lack of space...And when the kids move out, they stay close by, just so they can all stay together.

Isn't that the way family is supposed to really work?

-raises hand- I'm not even choosing a side here, but can just ask... why is RPing them in Misc so 'ooohh TERRIBLE!'? I mean.. I do a lot of RPing with my characters offsite that came from here, like Maurus, Earthshake, and ESPECIALLY Nekane. Hell, LENORA, my Water Draconic? An interpretation of her character is going in my NOVEL, as is Nekane (and Maurus and Shake under the name of Gaia). So you don't RP with them in the main section, big whoop! They're still there if you want them to be, still yours if you desire to keep them offsite.

So I restate - WHAT is the big deal with keeping them offsite or in a journal to RP Misc or elsewhere? They're just as good.

The kids are close by when they move out, they're still in the canyon after all

Not if the people they go to decide that they don't want to roleplay with you, or they want to completely change the kids altogether, since we're not given a choice with how the people they go to treat them/what they do to them.

Erm, if there were more draconics allowed in the canyon, it might become more active. When fishing opens -cough cough- hint hint -cough- your draconics will have more attention. As a user, I only rped with my draconics to save them from disappearance. So I'm not much help here.

So? Like Spirit said it's equal opportunity for everyone to receive a special draconic right off the bat. If they receive the child it's theres to do with as they wish. After all if you breed two equilion and you give the other baby away to someone and you had a personality in mind for them are you going to force that personality on the person's new pet? Nope.

Heh, I was speaking with other people in mind in my post.

Maybe some part of me got the idea of this a tad wrong...

To be honest? I'd be almost happier if you DID only allow one. Cause, then, I would know exactly who I wanted and it would be no big deal. x3

WAIT!

That 'Bonded, Mate, their kids' thing - that's impossible! You said we couldn't breed children within their own kin! XD I know why I was confused now...

In my mind, things kind of worked like this...

"Draconics = a few 'families' living together in their cave." Like, one blue one and one purple one and a couple of their kids.

...Which is why it made sense to me to want to increase it. I think.

But Spirit's version makes much more sense. :3

So then, it's not like he said. The kids don't move out; They die, because the new owner changes them completely. It's not the same kid.

And- Who's to say raising the limit kills the Rookery? It won't. I, personally, would only take one out of every clutch to maximize space and the plots my draconics can have. So a lot of my breedings? Would go to the Rookery, save for the one I get, and the one/s my partner gets.

I'm not fussed... Since I plan on simply getting one dreaming egg when I can afford it, and I'm not huge into the big intricate plots which require tons of generations of babbies. Not a whole lot of help here, lol, but like Silv I'd actually be perfectly happy with just one. :3 But that's because I'm really not so much of a collector.

Suppose I don't see why increasing the limit would make people play with them more...? We can have as many pets in our kennel as we want, yet most just sit and rot away. Why would it be any different in this case? I guess since I don't play with a assload of pets, it doesn't click for me. So I could be completely oblivious.

One out of every clutch x100 users (free breedings, mind you) x 5 breedings per month... Oh yeah, I can see that going well. Reeeally..

Let's say there's 5 breedings per month (free), with 3 babies on average per clutch.. 15 babies per month, no big deal..

Let's say that 4 of those people take all the babies home, which leaves 1-2 babies in the rookery.

Of 100 users, and 1-2 babies... who gets it? Sure, they could wait 50 months (doing the math) to get a baby that's special, if they don't want to do damage to a draconic by just taking it home at playing with it at random, only to fall in love with somebody else's baby in the rookery later.. how cruel.

Honestly? It's free art - and it's not going to you exclusively... You get the right to take one home simply because your draconic is the parent. The free art? Yeah - just like the rest of the free art on the site, it goes to the public.

With that math - 180 babies per year, and only 100 users.... Honestly, and you don't call that collecting just for the sake of collecting? Don't just look on a scale of "but in MY situation, it's special..." Look at the big picture.



EDIT:

The point of draconics is not to "have more so I'll roleplay more"..
The point is quite the opposite of MML (and even DWF)...

The hope is, that ONE will be so special, that you won't NEED to have more.. more is a bonus, in case you want some more family members... and for a largely solitary creature, more family members is not always the ideal life-style... They're not human remember.

Sure, in MML, we encourage you to collect, play your hearts out, and discard to your liking... But in the Canyon of Eterra - you should concentrate your thoughts on a single character.. Do you have 14 accounts on HxR? I thought not.. there's a reason for that.. Just as the same exact reason you can't have 14 draconics, no matter how much you play with them.

-ignored- I still don't get why RPing them in Misc/Offsite is so bad. O.o'' It's like.. I dunno. It's JUST as good, sometimes better because you can play by your own rules. I think it's great.. I took all my gen 1s offsite, not that you can SEE them anymore, but.. xD

EDIT: Also, as it is, I adore most of my Draconics, but Lenora has always been my most special one, and pretty much my decidedly bonded if ONLY to help Mika by being the opposite of her - water to sky. Mika is AFRAID of water, but working with Lenora, and with a friend's support, she's getting over it.

If I could only have ONE, okay, I'd be fine - so long as it was her. <3

But why are people breeding draconics? You got it off to the right place- You have to roleplay to make your draconic have children. It gives it life.

Babies come home- The babies you planned for- And are roleplayed with and loved. Not because they're pretty(we can't afford breeding for "pretty" with a low limit), but because you planned for them.

The people I talked to that want the limit raised? Have reasons for those that would be taking the spot, specifically, not for a specific look they're going for.

Honestly? My plot stops with the limit being 7. And then I don't need anymore; My family is complete.

The limit prevents collecting. A limit of 5? Prevents expansion. A limit of 10? Might be too much.

So maybe a limit of 8... Or even 6. Raise it by one; That allows at least a little difference, a little bit more room to expand.


EDIT: Expanding my thoughts.

They're sentient, which is completely different from the labs. Labs creatures can't be your family; Most of them can't talk, and they really are pets.

Draconics are ancient beings who want relationships with humans.

Just like humans- Draconics would have personalites, and since Draconics are even more INTELLIGENT than humans sometimes, the same thing would vary. Some would prefer to be alone, and some mothers and fathers want to have a loving family surrounding them.

I visioned Draconics, from what you described, to be more than a "collecting". I visioned it to be about the draconics themselves. Honestly... I'm not pointing fingers...But how many new members come who actually want to roleplay well, and give their pets life?

So maybe...The entire draconic section needs an application process, similar to the Beyond.

Which brings me to my next point.

We can train MML pets to go beyond, what have you. They're companions waaay out there, but we can train as we want. We have places in MML for them.

With the draconics...You can go to the barracks(which isn't open yet). Nothing else is open much.What does that leave Draconics to do? Turn to their loved ones for things to do.

Rosa - I think maybe this would help you understand what Spirit meant by 'solitary'.

A Draconic is like a fox - they like to be alone, get together only to have babies, and then when those babies are grown up, they move away.

People are like wolves - we like our extended families, we like to be around people. If we 'leave' home, it's to find another pack.

Draconics are not like wolves - nor are they much like humans. They're more like foxes. Cept... smart...er.

^-^

EDITlike:

Okay. Maybe fox was a bad choice. Maybe 'swan' is a better one. Swans find the one they love - like a Draconic and their human - and stay with that special swan until they die. They will never re-mate, and often end up perpetually sad if a mate dies prematurely.

Also - think about it. What about all those Draconics you have that don't get to be bonded to you? They have to live with the knowledge that they aren't 'good enough' or something, because you choose 'that' Draconic instead of them. They will never know the joy, if you will, of being bonded with someone they love... hell, bonded deeper than love, really.

That can't be fun...

Well this is an interesting topic. I never really thought of a higher limit on draconics. Seeing as I only have one myself and turned away an older one of mine to make sure that she got RPed enough, but it is an interesting idea. I see many problems with it, however.

Well if we increase it now who's to say that someone might get a little greedy, then ask for more? It hasn't happened before (except for the 100 MML thing a long time ago, but that's way gone and besides my point) But what if it did happen and the staffies who work on the draconics couldn't stand it. Then Spirit would need to shut it down to shut everybody the hell up about their problems with it. I'm not saying that you staffies reading this are incapable of handling it, I'm just looking out for your well mental being. And what about the newer people who (sometimes) don't exactly read all of the rules? Well they would fill up those 10, or whatever spaces, they had and (maybe) RP them, only to find out that they would be unable to get offspring for them without putting out one of their older dragons.

On to, now, what Spirit said about the current limitation, but I (of course) shall use a different analogy. Draconics are kind of like a five-gallon fish tank(small right) and it's filled to the specified limit of water. Now for every fish you need one gallon of water, and you have five fish already. Now you have two choices, to get rid of your older more liked fish for a new new one that may be shunned from the fishie community that they formed, or restrain yourself and not get a new one. See the problem, you don't want to part with an old fish for a new one that could keel in a day or two. See the tank as the caves and the fish as dragons and you'll get my point of course. In any way you look at it some things are just not really supposed to be changed because of their original designs. Like a fish tank, A five gallon tank gets five fish, a one-hundred-and-fifty gallon tank gets one-hundred-and-fifty fish. It's as simple as that.

And besides... we don't really need that many dragons running around and eating the wildlife now do we? a five gallon tank is fine for me, and really, limitations are a good thing to have because they have you make decisions and make you a more responsible person in the long run. And there's my point.

Personally, I hate 'Collecting' Pets... it bothers me to have a million of anything at all. RA loves his Mintek, that big Lashak offspring, and of caurse he's going to have to big fluufffeh kids and live a happy, soul-bonded life with his mate, Big 'Brother' (runningair) and kids.

Why have more when you can have your huge dragon and his tiny Drakelets?

Seriously, in real life, IF you somehow came into care of a dragon. Think about how much the thing eats... huindreds of pounds of food, depending on the size. They might even breathe fire. Think of the stubbornness and the fact you may not be able to 'control' it as you would a pet. They are mostly intellegent beings. Etc.

>>

Now multiply that by ten, and then decide you want... 8 more.


Would you relaly have enough money/room/supplies to keep that many dragons?! My lord people, why want more? Why wish to collect these beautiful intellegent creatures (even if they are 'Just Pixels') WHEN MOST OF YOU DON'T EVEN ACTUALLY POST ANY IF AT ALL.

I know, there are people whom post. Kyle posts, Rosa I expect to post. Quite a few other people, will post, and I will post. I'm not going to tell you your not specifically and get myself into any sort of trouble. ><

But- look at all those draconic homes. Most have only posted their homes and nothing more. Why want more when you cannot even keep the ones you have?


Seriously.

Rosa I don't know if you know this, but your had to rp to breed orbaru when they were breedable. It didn't keep the lazy people from breeding them at all, we only have like a million gee. And when orbaru were extremely the "I WANT" item on xroads people would sell them to newbies for high prices. Hell meowing orbarus (don't ask) were worth a freaking ton! And then Spirit had to put a stop to it by saying their dna was unraveling.

And I seriously doubt raising the limit will raise the activity in the canyon. When some people want to rp dragons they want it free form. They want them to be the best of warlocks, the greatest shapeshifters, and the deadliest of mages. They want them to be able to fly and breathe eight million breath weapons, they just do. Which makes the draconics unappealing to some because of their limitations and structure. You can't make a malavos the deadliest of mages, you can't turn a lashak into a shapeshifter, okay maybe you could turn a Naneiyesh into a mage....maybe. Anyways the point is that what will raise activity in the canyon are new things happening, not increasing the limit

That attitude is exactly what makes the rest of us seem hostile to new members. It's elitist older members who automatically think there so much better because they have more experience or a larger vocabulary that make people so timid to actually come out and talk. We're supposed to greet new people, not judge them based solely on roleplay ability.

Seriously.

So you would feel happy if one of Merrow's kids went so someone who roleplayed like this?

"i took the dragon 2 the cave & hugged him. he was so difrent & now he was mine. i talked 2 him 4 awhile & then decided 2 nap. wen i woke up, he was gone. i called out 'FLUFFY WERE R U' & it turns out he was rite behind me all along. so i hugged him again & said 'i love you fluffy' & we went home.'

Don't think that'll happen? Roleplay somewhere else besides the crossroads. Trust me, they'll move here.

You want your dragons going to them?

I'm not talking about the ones who actually try. No one's fabulous at roleplaying when they start out. Spirit's doing what he can to prevent it-Eventually, though, they'll find a way to slip through.

Okay. Even if we don't raise the limit(Which is still a "me shutting up grudgingly"), it'd be nice if Ashe wasn't the only one setting guidelines. The best of places have councils, right? Who knows- Ashe might miss something that another person wouldn't.

Draconics can't be the new orbarus, by the way,because I'm not asking all limits be removed... If it was my understanding, you could have more than 6 or 7 orbarus. So you continue to MISS THE POINT. I'm still asking for limits. Just one that's a little bit more.

Like I said before I trust Ashe's judgement completely as she is the player of NPC rookery master. I doubt she'd allow someone who roleplayed like that to even attempt to adopt a draconic. And one of the requirements on the draconic site is "We expect you to be able to type in full and complete sentences." and another "No chatspeak allowed. (we don't mind smilies though). ^.^". Those that try however I would be glad they received the baby, heck I mean I was like tht before I came to site.

I guess I could sort of background check by a stealthy staff member could eb in order as well though >.>

One last thing I'd like to point out, in what Spirit said.

The cavern is for your bonded, its mate, and their two kids. And the extra? Wheeee, extra!

It can't work like that. Honestly, if it could, I'd shut up right now and be happy.

We can't keep the mate in the same cavern. Spirit said that you had to go outside the cavern to breed, because draconics won't breed with their kin.

So- We start out with two draconics that could be mates...But...They can't have kids within the kin. So they have to go out. Now, both of them start families. One family is okay with just their kid/two kids- The other family is not okay with just a kid and no grandchildren.

So, in essence, we'd have to start out with one draconic, only one, and then get only one baby from each breeding if we'd like the kids to have "love/family" plots.

If there had been, from the beginning, a rule stating we could only take one offspring per person from the hatchlings, this wouldn't be a problem. Really, until a few months ago, that was what I was planning on to begin with. But then I bred Izzy again because the poor boy was so depressed and now I have another kid in the Cavern.

Now, I adore Ember, really, I do, the bugger's really grown on me. But... I just can't see her as Obsidion's Bonded, and that's kind of what I'm breeding for. There is that perfect one out there for him, it just hasn't been born yet.

Draconics are meant to be family, that's why they're Kin when in the same Cavern together, and that is why I refuse to sell/adopt out/gift away ANY of the ones I have at the moment. Freya is intended for Ivory, or (if I can get her), Victoria. I can't get rid of Izzy, I just can't, it's impossible. Maybe you're thinking "Oh, he's just another Lashak though!" No, he's what brought me to the xRoads in the first place, he's the first one I ever RP'd with on the old site, and he means so much to me, it's out of the question. It's just... he's never gotten a break. Ember will never leave my sights either, she's what Izzy still has from Umber, his first mate who disappeared. And now Miz can't leave either, as he's the baby Izzy has from Miyu, the one he's starting to think just may be the one for him after all.

Now. I'm perfectly fine with taking only one baby from Ember and Miz' breedings, perfectly fine. But what about their kids? Why can't they have children who actually live with them? That's why I'm thinking just two more spots, up the limit from 5 to 7. Of course, I mean, by then, something else will happen and who knows? 10 is definitely too many, there's just no way. 7 is a good, round number that lets a liiiiittle bit of diversity into your Cavern.

And what about the people who have five Draconics, can't imagine parting with ANY of them, and yet still want their favorite to have children and at least one live with them? Either they'll be sad and get rid of one of them or they'll let their Draconic be sad and never let them have kids. How do you choose between the two?

Eterra has always intrigued me because of this, there's always new breeds of Draconics popping up, and how do you choose the perfect mate for one of your own because of it? Honestly, I think breeding Draconics is really the only thing people can do at the moment. The Barracks are still in development as well as fishing, and none of the Draconics have specialists, so how are you supposed to train them?

Anyway... that was... longer than I thought it would be, heh.

In the beginning of Canyon of Etterra, you could only have 3 draconics. They upped it to 5. I think 7'd be goo, if any upping at all. Ten's way too many like Obs mentioned.

What if we had a loyalty limit of like 50/per draconic? And even then you could only get seven or so. Which means Bonded, three of his kids, and two grandkids, and like a greatgrandchild, since you can't have your draconics mate in the first place. XD

So a normal limit of five, then you have to level all of them up to 50 loyalty before you can get the next one and then those six to loyalty 30 or something before the next?

I think the draconic limit should be raised by one. Maybe two, but that's sort of pushing it. Why? Well, I've always liked even numbers. =3 That and right now my cave is full of tension and questions that can't be answered. We're suffocating, the four of us. One humanish, three draconic.

If I had known Spirit's plans for the draconics originally, them maybe the current situation in my cave would have never happened. I'd have chosen one, maybe two babies and then everything would be nice and free and everyone could breath! We wouldn't be so afraid to speak to each other...

Ah, ok. I'm going to tell a story. It's about my cave and... its history.

When Eterra first started out, I have five draconics. There was my big huggable Malavos, my bright-eyed Harian, my quietly brooding Lashak, my strikingly intelligent Kivata, and then my little blue Nanaiyesh egg that was waiting to hatch... I was so happy with them.

But there was a draconic limit and there was also breeding. Free breeding, how wonderful! I'd look at my Lashak, Frezic, the first to grow and think... 'I wonder when I can find him a girl...' Soon, the rest of them grew. Denzi hatched. Breeding was in full-swing. I was left behind.

I had five draconics and I loved them all dearly. But there were only three that I refused to give up.

I sold my Harian eventually to a friend who missed out. I tried to find a new home for my Malavos, but they were common... no one wanted him. He just... faded away.

I turned to my remaining three, content and happy. I didn't really need babies, after all, I had them! My Skylark would be perfectly happy with just those three. But what about them? Denzi, the Nanaiyesh, deserved someone intelligent that she could talk to. Demur, the Kivata, was just too wonderful and intelligent not to find someone. And then Frezic... my big, lonely Frezic... What would happen to him?

If Denzi or Demur wanted babies eventually, then Frezic would be left out. I knew that and I made me so sad to think about. Frezic deserved so much more... The poor boy can barely say five words in common! He wasn't played with enough... He needs friends who don't live with him! But I also can't give him up. He was my original favorite, before Demur's personality stole my heart.

I have three draconics and I love them all dearly. I could never give any of them up. They are family. But they are also so very limited... My mind works on ways to make all three happy, but in every plan at least one gets left behind. Maybe if I had only been able to adopt one... or two originally I wouldn't have this problem. But right now, I can't get any of my draconics up. I've had them too long and I like them too much.

Give one to a second character? Oh, yes, I could do that. The change of scenery might suite Frezic, who sort of resents the more intelligent Denzi and Demur. But them what? It's just a quick fix that not everyone can manage...

If a person has two draconics and breeds them both, but only take home one babies from each breeding... That's four. The parents can't kick their offspring out, people can only have one cave each!

If those children wants families of their own and their players want to keep at least one baby to play with for themself... Then those two children are going to be fighting over that one spot. A player would have to either just breed one or breed both and try and get the offspring to go to a friend.

See, this is why I like even numbers so much. You don't have to give something to one and leave the other left out. Both draconics can have a kid. You want to breed those two originals and bring home more them one baby? Er... Ok... but you can only to that with one of them! The other can't have two kids come home.


Now I'm gonna turn around and bite at my own argument. We don't need more then one or two draconics. No one does. I love the idea of having one soul bonded and one companion so much! I even know which ones I'd choose. <3

But at the same time, I love making characters. I love pretty pictures just as much as the next person. I'd want my draconics to have babies and I'd want one of those babies, too. It'd be a crowded cave. The parents would hate it. But Skylark would hug them all and beg her draconics to let her take home a little squishy baby to play with. "Just one, please! I want a new friend to play with! Please!"

And so that's three. Skylark gets her one more companion. That'd work out wonderfully! In an ideal world. But people have plots and ideas and stories. They want more characters, more things to play with. Some people can't be content unless they have at least three generations to play with.

It's like having a book end before the story is completely over. You don't want to hear about how the main character found their true love and they lived happily ever after, especially not when you know for a fact that the main character isn't done having adventures just yet. It's incomplete... just a little empty.


I guess I no longer know what my argument is. On the one hand, I'd like being limited. On the other, I'd love to continue the story. I don't want to limit to be lifted completely. Maybe raised by one.

Gotta love even numbers.

I say: I LOVE the small limit. I hate it cause I want more but I love it because it means that people will have to REALLY care about their draconic to keep it.

The HIGHEST I think it should be would be 7. Just cause it's a cool number, and a good number. 10 sounds like too many to me...and anything higher, I would HATE.

MML and DWF, with no limits- see how many pets people have that NEVER get played with? How many CUSTOMS, even, that no one plays with? Having a limit on Draconics makes people actually think before they do anything. A lot of people don't have time, even, for more than two- thus, they give the others away, or they all just rot. So if those people got 10+...that'd be a lot of draconics going to waste.

The rookery is wonderful. Though...it just gives people things they're too darn lazy to earn on their own through 25 simple posts.... But still.

I am AGAINST any loyaltycaps. Dear god, has anyone seen the CRAPPY posts we all do, to reach those reqs? We should be ashamed of ourselves. XP And like...NOT ruin this section with it.

Yes, five large dragons =/= 5 normal size family members... XD;; Biiig difference.

Heck no, allowing more draconics will not make it more active here...o.O People don't have time to handle their own five, how would having MORE help anything?

Um... MY NAME OH SNAP... Yeah, how the HECK would I allow a chatspeaker to even RP, let alone get, a baby Draconic? Have some faith, gosh. x.o *so insulted* I DO read and I DO RP with the applicants...I thought you, being one of the newbies even that applied, would understand the process... Also, Rosa, you're getting a new character. Know what that means? You get TEN. There you go. Problem solved. Use seven slots. Draconic A can live in your canyon, and its mate can live in your other character's canyon. Pretend they're like a human couple that haven't moved in together.

We ALWAYS had a 5 limit...o.O Long as I've been around... Cause there were 5 to start out with... and stuff...






What I think

- Draconics is NOT MML. Not a collection. Keep it different.
- A low limit works wonders.
- You don't have to get rid of your images when you "kick them out" - Rp them offsite.
- I DO, however, think that if you BUY one, like a Dreaming Egg, or a Water Draconic, that they wouldn't exactly count toward your limit... At most. Ya know? However, keeping a record of who has upgraded caves would be more work than really needed, and confusing...
- I don't mind the 5 limit. It's ingrained in my memory, and everything I do is revolving around that number. Plans for breeding the perfect one for Ashe. We don't need more, really. IF we DID go to 7... then that would have to be it. No adding EVER in the future, no adding if you buy a special one... The most EVER it should reach would be 7. IF that.

That's my three cents. >> <<

(CAPS= stressing words. Not yelling)

Rosa. To be frank.

I think I'm insulted that you don't trust Ashe to do her job. It's her JOB as a staff member, and she is PAID to do it. That's like saying you don't trust me to do Credit Transfers, or Josie to do mines. It's really insulting as a staff member to hear that someone thinks another staff member could be incompetent at their job enough to need 'extra help' without asking for it.

Not only that, but I'm also insulted on your comment about how people here roleplay. You're new here - and you seem competent. What if I thought you were a bad roleplayer and didn't 'deserve' my Draconic's children. You'd be pretty hurt, wouldn't you? Well, I'm hurt for all the poor newbies you insulted there.

You know what I think? I think you're trying to get the limit changed, thinking of yourself first and the community second. Spirit (and some others) are thinking of the community first and themselves second - which is how a possible change in rules should be looked at.

I am also AGAINST the increase to '6' or '7'. Because it's petty. A slight increase isn't going to give you OMG sudden plot adjustment. It's not going to be some new big deal. It's just going to let collectors have one (or two) more pets to collect, and it's going to let a few people get that 'final last one for the plot'.

Plus... 'Give them an inch, they take a mile.' "Well you increased it once, so why not increase it again?" and... again... and again. I feel that this is something that should stay static, and the more I look at this arguement, the more I feel that way.

I personally prefere to stick to one, maybe two individuals.
But I was thinking... Choices will get harder as more speices is getting added, and the idea of having to abandon an old member because a new speices is so extreamly pretty in such way that it inspires you, making you *have to have it*.
Many seem concerned that a increased number of draconics would some rot and become collective objects. And I agree.

My idea however is that, if a person mange to show enough dedication to the draconics they already have, they could get a slithly increased family cap. This shouldn’t be an easy goal at all, but still a possibility. Maybe if a person can show off... let’s say all their 5 draconics at level 80, they may keep a 6th member.
80lvs are a heck lot, and the risk is that spam level posting will occur. But I doubt someone who only have interest in collective items would level 5 creatures to lv80 to raise the cap with one single addition. Spam leveling a creature to lv80... You’d pretty much would be forced to develop some sort of personality and interest. I belive that if you’re willing to put in all this effort, this 6th member must be extreamly important to you... This may, instead of spam, also spur people to rp their draconics more.
Later, to have 7 members, you’d need to show 6 ones at lv.100 and so on. But there should still be a limit of per say 10 draconics even this way.

Or maybe we could be allowed to transform one draconic into another species, as we do in MML with transformation potions. But in draconics case, it would be more attractive if it didn’t happen just because of a unnatural injection, but instead an event that is a *zomg magical* in an anccient temple somewhere. This should also require quality rp rather then creadits. Credits maybe just would determie if ones may obtain LE species or not.

Or both.
Acually, I think I’d prefere both.

I... I like that idea.

I didn't say I don't trust her to do her job- But I don't know everything her job entitles. Does it include background checks? People tend to do better when they're trying out for something. So who knows, they could be GREAT in the Rookery- But somewhere else...Not so much. As Kyle said, I don't think she needs help in the Rookery. Stealthy staff member to sneak around and make sure people are being honest.

Same stealthy staff member could also help with the "negative credits" that happen- Like...Keep track of who's transferring what, and notify someone if they've gone over before transfers go through so they don't spend MORE... 'Cause last time credits went through, there were some people who were like,"?! I went over? D:"

And...Someone told me people sell their offspring Draconics in the trading post sometimes? Are they allowed/supposed to do that? Same stealthy staff could track and make sure people aren't doing that...And actually using the Rookery.

I didn't insult anyone here, actually.No one here roleplays like that. I'll quote myself.

"Roleplay somewhere else besides the crossroads. Trust me, they'll move here."
...
"I'm not talking about the ones who actually try. No one's fabulous at roleplaying when they start out. Spirit's doing what he can to prevent it-Eventually, though, they'll find a way to slip through."

Actually, the only reason I said anything is because someone else told me to.

I am also AGAINST the increase to '6' or '7'. Because it's petty. A slight increase isn't going to give you OMG sudden plot adjustment. It's not going to be some new big deal. It's just going to let collectors have one (or two) more pets to collect, and it's going to let a few people get that 'final last one for the plot'.

"That's why I'm thinking just two more spots, up the limit from 5 to 7. Of course, I mean, by then, something else will happen and who knows? 10 is definitely too many, there's just no way. 7 is a good, round number that lets a liiiiittle bit of diversity into your Cavern.

And what about the people who have five Draconics, can't imagine parting with ANY of them, and yet still want their favorite to have children and at least one live with them? Either they'll be sad and get rid of one of them or they'll let their Draconic be sad and never let them have kids. How do you choose between the two?

Eterra has always intrigued me because of this, there's always new breeds of Draconics popping up, and how do you choose the perfect mate for one of your own because of it?"

I basically control ALL of the draconics baby process, minus the coloring. I set up apps for people, I open breeding rooms, I watch to make sure that those actually breeding don't just post five measly sentences each post (and believe me when I say a breeding has been voided because they would not edit their posts to even meet the sites five-sentence requirement, due to me watching it.) I also atually RP (attempted to be extensive, so I can test their skill) with the babies and potential "family" leaders. You know this very well. Next time, before thinking I might miss something, think for a minute before posting.

And like Silver said... I could have easily said, "You're a newbie, you're just typing pretty to impress me, you automatically can't get one..." Wouldn't have liked that, I bet, especially if Tala wouldn't have bypassed me.

Also... I don't know if you're aware how long I'm online, but how few posts I make in comparison... While I do RP, and try to a lot, mostly I like watching people, or conversing. Anyone that's active here, I basically know how they RP, and have an opinion of them. I know how often they RP, and generally the quality both when they're trying extra hard, making quick posts to make a requirement, and just having fun. And I've never RPed with you, besides the Rookery, so if I didn't watch what people were doing, and how they RP... I could have easily assumed those weren't normal posts for you and you were trying too hard.

I don't know why I'm defending myself to you as I don't have to, but I thought this would be obvious.

As for the selling... I'm not sure about that myself. I know Twilight once held a competition (RPstyle) to see who she would best like her baby to go to, which I don't see anything wrong with. It's just like what I would do, only she, the owner/family leader, gets to choose. People -are- allowed to give their eggs away instead of going straight to the rookery, to my understanding. There was also an auction once, but to my understanding... If you have five slots and only three are filled, those three are for you to do whatever you want with. It's just like how people sell the Amulet of Submission (also a free gift) for a lot of credits.

And, to be even more frank... People should pay attention to their credit useage. They're lucky to have so many transfers, and have them done efficiently. Even on Silver's bad weeks, the transfers get done way sooner than the transfers on V1 that were left in chaos after the former credit transfer-er quit. That was MONTHS worth of credits that never got taken from the shops. It's their OWN fault, no Silver's, for going over. How hard is it to not spend what you don't have? Think of it as a bank card. You can't spend what you don't have in your bank account...spend more than what you have, you get penalties. The bank doesn't let you know till after, as you are expected to have that little responsibility. The bank is also NOT to blame.

Actually, we do have people here like that occasionally. Either they get caught and banned, go inactive cause no one will play with them, or they try to shape up, but still RP like crap, no matter how many people try to help. (not naming anyone, but it does happen).

And this person that told you to can't stand up for it themselves? A debate you don't really want wholeheartedly..isn't a good debate to enter. o.O

People who love all of their draconics should NOT breed them, to avoid temptation. If they breed them, and then drool over the babies they can't have, and don't want enough to switch out another, then they obviously don't want them enough, thus they would be better off elsewhere. That would be their fault, not Spirit's.

I like the idea of the transformation magical thing, sorta... But IC, it would seem to me to insult the Draconic... "Here, let's change how you look because you don't look cool enough for me but I don't want to get rid of all the hard work I put into you.." If my mom took me to get plastic surgery because SHE wanted me to look more like Angelina Jolie, I would be sad. D=

Level/loyalty requirements, no matter the level, can be spammed to get to, and so help me if I see people spamming in the Canyon...x.o The one place where there is no requirement, thus people don't spam to meet it...

About the potion transformation... I kinda like it, but I agree that IC it's kinda like 'D:' to the Draconic.. however, as it was said by Uzag, if it were require RPing to get and all, then the Draconic would have to consent to the change. All kinds of stories pop up in plot... maybe it was maimed, and would accept any form that was NORMAL again. Maybe it had an accident and can no longer fly (if it flies) and would give ANYTHING for that chance again. Or, maybe it's just a shallow little being who would rather take another form they think suites them better.

I think it would HAVE to be RPed, and it would HAVE to be on the Draconic's consent... NOT the humans.