www.freedomoftheroad.net BANNER

Enjoy forums? Start your own community for free.
InvisionFree - Free Forum Hosting
Welcome to Freedom Of The Road. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Name:   Password:


 

 Most Reliable 9mm sub-compact/compact
traxtermax
Posted: Oct 22 2011, 01:30 AM


Newbie
*

Group: Camper
Posts: 55
Member No.: 216
Joined: 26-March 10





I am looking for a highly reliable (self defense), 9mm (caliber NOT in question) thatís light and easily concealed. Durability is an important factor but doesnít trump reliability or ease of concealment BUT itís most important that it goes BANG every time I pull the trigger. Across the board, I suppose revolvers are more reliable than autos but I think I want a semi-auto because itís easier to conceal, holds more rounds, and if of superior quality, can be as reliable as revolvers.

I like the idea of a combination of single/double action but Iíd appreciate any opinions for or against the idea.

A model that can be easily fitted with a high quality, unobtrusive laser sight would seem desirableóany and all opinions and experiences related the qualities of these weapons is appreciated.

Some brands and models are ďknownĒ for a ďnastyĒ trigger pull or at least several comments in different forums are consistent on that account.

Iím also torn between composite (lighter) and metal frames (more durable but considerably heavier). If the durability between the two was equal, I suppose I would opt for the composite since it's significantly lighter and the gun would probably be more durable than the owner.

On the other hand, I could be talked into a ďflat revolverĒ if there is such a thing but I havenít looked at many revolvers (caliber would be 38/357).

Iím only looking at subcompact / super sub-compact handguns and have so far compiled those listed below:
Ruger LC9
Kahar PM9
Kahar CM9
Kahar Solo
Tarus 709
Sig P290, 239
Springfield XD9
Glock 19/26
HK P7M8
HK 7M8
S&W P9C
Beretta PX4 storm
Kimber Avegis Ultra

Please offer an opinion about any on this list or add a weapon if you have a suggestion. Specific comments are appreciated, especially if you own the model in question. Also, if you have known or have heard about any negative qualities, please include those too.

Thanks.



Top
The Texan
Posted: Oct 22 2011, 07:50 AM


On the Road...Somewhere in the US
*

Group: Co-Administrator
Posts: 1,054
Member No.: 14
Joined: 26-June 09



IMO, if a Glock will fit your hand, there is not a more durable, reliable gun out there. My duty weapon was a Beretta 92, then we went to the Glock 19 and my groups improved over 50% and the weight on my gun belt went down considerably. I was duly impressed with the Glock and one of our training exercises was to roll around in the mud with the gun in your hand, then load a mag, chamber a round and fire 45 rounds(3mags) while laying in the mud. I never saw a failure of the gun in these conditions and the reason for the exercise was to give you confidence in the new weapon. The armorer said that he saw maybe one failure every 50000 rounds in the mud exercise. Great weapon.
Top
traxtermax
Posted: Oct 22 2011, 12:02 PM


Newbie
*

Group: Camper
Posts: 55
Member No.: 216
Joined: 26-March 10



Geeze, that's impressive. Where were the other three magazines "stored" during the exercise"--in an enclosed "holster", in the mud...?

In other words, were the magazines and gun muddy, just the gun, or both?

Your post makes me slow-up on the shopping and just look for a G19.

How did you like your Beretta? Was it just as reliable? I think the government may have put Beretta and other candidates through a mud/sand test in order to choose a military sidearm but I'm not sure.

How was the trigger pull on both guns--one any better than the other?
Top
The Texan
Posted: Oct 22 2011, 02:34 PM


On the Road...Somewhere in the US
*

Group: Co-Administrator
Posts: 1,054
Member No.: 14
Joined: 26-June 09



Our mags were 15 rounds, so there were 3 total. The 2 spares were in mag holders on our belt and yes they were dirty and muddy when inserted into the butt.

The Beretta was IMO, way to heavy and for me and did not shot a good group. I personally think the trigger pull was better on the Glock and that was one reason my grouping improved. I will say that I saw more problems with the Beretta in the years I carried it and practiced at the range than I ever saw with the Glock. Our Department went to the .45 model Glock just before I retired. I did not train on the new model, as I was leaving and wanted to keep my 19.

I do have a Taurus PT-140, which I think is a very good gun, but I still favor my Glock.
Top
donsm60
Posted: Oct 22 2011, 09:41 PM


Don...
*

Group: Co-Administrator
Posts: 2,822
Member No.: 51
Joined: 21-August 09



From the list the only one I have firsthand experience with is the Glock 19 but have owned and carried a Glock model 27 in .40, identical to the model 26 in size besides one less round and both the 26 & 27 are compacts and sizably smaller than the sub compacts models btw. Along owning and carrying models 21, 23 and the daily carry model Iíve zeroed as my favorite is the full size 22 in 40. Iíve owned and shot a lot of carry options and from a reliability perspective they are the AK47 of handguns.

Imo Glocks are the best personal defense weapon available but an advanced one because of the lack of safeties to daily carry without a solid understanding. And thatís what I love about them, draw and shoot with nothing else to think about slowing you down.
Top
sushidog
Posted: Oct 22 2011, 09:58 PM


Traveller
*

Group: Camper
Posts: 809
Member No.: 4
Joined: 7-June 09



I carried a Detonics Pocket 9 for years and it never failed to feed or fire. It's pretty small for a 9.

It's old school (but so am I) and they are hard to come by these days.

http://www.thespecialistsltd.com/detonics-pocket-9

The new Beretta Nano is another more modern choice about ths size and capacity of my old Detonics that you might want to consider too.

Here's a modern, even smaller 9 (with a larger mag) that's not on your list. It has an innovative design allowing a longer barrel (more energy) in a shorter package. It's not cheap though.

http://www.bobergarms.com/

Chip
Top
traxtermax
Posted: Oct 22 2011, 11:09 PM


Newbie
*

Group: Camper
Posts: 55
Member No.: 216
Joined: 26-March 10



Which are double/single action or double only? I looked on the glock site but they didn't list the "specific specifics"!

I believe I like both options but don't know how much that will reduce my choices, especially if reliability enters the equation.
Top
sushidog
Posted: Oct 23 2011, 05:54 AM


Traveller
*

Group: Camper
Posts: 809
Member No.: 4
Joined: 7-June 09



The trend now is DA only, but my old Detonics was a SA/DA. I like this design with an external hammer. I would carry it with a round in the chamber, hammer down. When drawing, I would cock the hammer and flip the safety off in the same motion, allowing me a fire it SA every shot. Should my thumb slip and not fully cock the piece, due to the stress of the situation, I would still have a reliable DA first shot. One could also leave the safety off if entering a high risk area/situation where speed outweighs accuracy, and it would be just like many revolvers as far as safety goes. I do like the option of subsequent SA trigger pulls for increased accuracy, just in case.

Chip
Top
lockdoc
Posted: Oct 23 2011, 06:30 AM


Camper
*

Group: Camper
Posts: 430
Member No.: 91
Joined: 14-September 09



QUOTE (donsm60 @ Oct 22 2011, 09:41 PM)
From the list the only one I have firsthand experience with is the Glock 19 but have owned and carried a Glock model 27 in .40, identical to the model 26 in size besides one less round and both the 26 & 27 are compacts and sizably smaller than the sub compacts models btw. Along owning and carrying models 21, 23 and the daily carry model Iíve zeroed as my favorite is the full size 22 in 40. Iíve owned and shot a lot of carry options and from a reliability perspective they are the AK47 of handguns.

Imo Glocks are the best personal defense weapon available but an advanced one because of the lack of safeties to daily carry without a solid understanding. And thatís what I love about them, draw and shoot with nothing else to think about slowing you down.

With all of the reading that I have been doing lately I am thinking that I want a Glock as my daily carry gun. This post by Don and the previous one by Texan confirms everything that I have seen or heard about reliable firing guns.....and the brand to select.

I am wondering if I made a mistake now in hindsight with the purchase of my Springfield XD 45ACP. While I didn't intend for this to be my daily carry gun I am now second guessing my choice for a concealed vehicle gun. I plan on having this in my work van in a biometric access vault.

Of course it doesn't help that I cannot pick up my gun until my permit to carry is issued.....so I cannot even hold it while I write this lament.

I have been researching carry weapons and means of concealment and I have concluded that the Glock is the weapon that I want on my person. Now I just need to figure out which one and how I want to carry it. :blink: Lots of choices to make. I know what the OP is saying with reliability being very important.....because I want a gun that fires every time too!
Top
donsm60
Posted: Oct 23 2011, 05:51 PM


Don...
*

Group: Co-Administrator
Posts: 2,822
Member No.: 51
Joined: 21-August 09



Give them a try Kevin, there is no better self-defense handgun made imo but all of it is as personal as the underwear we like the best and feel comfortable with. Made a mistake in my last post and always do it for some reason, the 26 & 27 are the sub compacts not the compact models.
Top
Diesel
Posted: Oct 24 2011, 09:41 PM


YES I have a truck NO I won't help you move!
*

Group: CAMP HOST
Posts: 351
Member No.: 5
Joined: 7-June 09



Of your original list HKP7M8, personally I would go with the M13.

I've got a S&W 469 that has digested over 15,000rds with no failures.

If you want a revolver, the S&W 940 is nice and compact. I have one with the 3" barrel, they use 5rd moon clips and as such have the same speed of reload capability as the .45acp revolvers the wheelgun speed pros used.

Top
sushidog
Posted: Oct 25 2011, 05:49 AM


Traveller
*

Group: Camper
Posts: 809
Member No.: 4
Joined: 7-June 09



If you are looking for a "flat revolver," check out this unique arm.

http://www.chiappafirearms.com/product/725

Chip
Top
Deen
Posted: Oct 28 2011, 02:13 AM


Deen - Vancouver, WA - I'm the one on the left!
*

Group: Camper
Posts: 660
Member No.: 105
Joined: 3-October 09



Have you looked at the Kimber Solo Carry or Solo Carry Stainless? 9mm, but only 6 + 1 rds. There is also a Crimson Trace laser for it, but you have to buy that direct from Kimber and at a premium. So far I haven't been able to get my hands on one to try but the magazine reports look good (but then they always do!!)
Right now I'm carrying a Kahr CW45 with CT laser (also 6 + 1 but in .45) but considering the Kimber as the new 9mm rounds seem to be enough power.

I've owned a Glock but they just don't fit my hand or point naturally. I had a 33 with internal laser which was kind of finicky.
Top
Deen
Posted: Oct 28 2011, 02:17 AM


Deen - Vancouver, WA - I'm the one on the left!
*

Group: Camper
Posts: 660
Member No.: 105
Joined: 3-October 09



QUOTE (sushidog @ Oct 25 2011, 05:49 AM)
If you are looking for a "flat revolver," check out this unique arm.

http://www.chiappafirearms.com/product/725

Chip

There's one for sale on a local board I frequent, he can't sell it for even $625 although I think that's still too high for a used one as they list for $700 new. $625 should be about what they should sell for new from a dealer.

Nov. 30th: Down to $600 and still no takers.
Top
jeffe
Posted: Nov 9 2011, 08:05 PM





Group: Camper
Posts: 13
Member No.: 56
Joined: 25-August 09



QUOTE (Deen @ Oct 28 2011, 02:13 AM)
Have you looked at the Kimber Solo Carry or Solo Carry Stainless? 9mm, but only 6 + 1 rds. There is also a Crimson Trace laser for it, but you have to buy that direct from Kimber and at a premium. So far I haven't been able to get my hands on one to try but the magazine reports look good (but then they always do!!)
Right now I'm carrying a Kahr CW45 with CT laser (also 6 + 1 but in .45) but considering the Kimber as the new 9mm rounds seem to be enough power.

I've owned a Glock but they just don't fit my hand or point naturally. I had a 33 with internal laser which was kind of finicky.

When I was at the gunshop today, they told me that have over 80 Kimber Solo's on order and have received only three in th elast 90 days. They don't know how long the wait might be.

I like the looks of the Kimber Solo and think it would be a great carry piece.
Top
Mike Smith
Posted: Nov 10 2011, 05:35 AM


Fulltimer
*

Group: CAMP HOST
Posts: 1,562
Member No.: 78
Joined: 31-August 09



I'm still very pleased with my H&K P30. It fits my hand like a comfortable glove. They make them in a 9mm with a 15 round mag.

The Stingray SP1 laser is a different story. It's going back.
Top
traxtermax
Posted: Nov 20 2011, 01:46 AM


Newbie
*

Group: Camper
Posts: 55
Member No.: 216
Joined: 26-March 10



Iím still looking for reliable 9mm carry and definitely leaning toward Glock but it doesn't fit my hand well. On the other hand, defensive maneuvers donít require comfort--just putting lead where I need it.

Since Iíve had tinnitus for many years and want a highly reliable 9mm ďbelly gunĒ, Iím also wondering about silencers / suppressors.

Is there a ďbestĒ suppressor for quality, suppression and maintenance (if there is any)? What kind of suppression, in decibels, can I expect (gunfire ranges from 140-160 dB).

Are there some handgun brands that are more conductive to silencers than others?

is there a "Mercedes" brand suppressor i.e. a "supreme suppressor", that towers above the rest?

I realize that some states donít permit ownership of silencers but for now, thatís a side issue and one of the reasons why I donít appreciate ďstatesí rightsĒ.

Iíve read reports that the Ruger 9 among others, has a magazine disconnect (a chambered round can't be fired without a magazine installed). What 9mms, beside the Glocks, DONíT have a magazine disconnect?

Iím told that Glock offers a OPTIONAL trigger set of 3.5 lb. pull instead of the standard ~5 lbs. Are any other autos available with lighter trigger sets? Does anyone own a Glock with the lighter trigger?

Any input about guns, suppressors or whatever, is appreciated.

Thanks.


Top
Mike Smith
Posted: Nov 20 2011, 04:23 AM


Fulltimer
*

Group: CAMP HOST
Posts: 1,562
Member No.: 78
Joined: 31-August 09



The H&K P30 can be made to fit any hand. It has 3 side panel thicknesses and three back panel thicknesses, for an almost infinite adjustment of the grip.

When I let people hold it, I have a large screwdriver handy because every now and then I have to pry it out of a person's hand. I have been told by one of my acquaintances that he just experienced a hand orgasm after holding the P30 (he's a bit weird)... Yes, I washed the grip...
Top
traxtermax
Posted: Nov 20 2011, 08:24 PM


Newbie
*

Group: Camper
Posts: 55
Member No.: 216
Joined: 26-March 10



Iím still looking at reliable 9mm carry but my hand is to small to make it comfortable to shoot. On the other hand, defensive maneuvers donít require comfort--just putting lead where I need it.

Then, the thought occurred to me that I could purchase a suppressor that could accommodate a 9mm handgun that I would purchase.
Since Iíve had tinnitus for many years and now want a highly reliable 9mm ďbelly gunĒ, Iím wondering about silencers / suppressors.

Is there a ďbestĒ suppressor for quality, suppression and maintenance (if there is any)?

What kind of suppression, in decibels, can I expect (gunfire ranges from 140-160 dB).

Are there some handgun brands that are more conductive to silencers than others?

I realize that some states donít permit ownership of silencers but for now, thatís a side issue and one of the reasons why I donít appreciate ďstatesí rightsĒ.

Iíve read reports of the ďRuger 9Ē being a death gun because it has a magazine disconnect. What 9mmís, beside the Glocks, DONíT have a disconnect? Iím told that Glock offers a trigger set of 3.5 lb. pull instead of the standard ~5 lbs. Are any other autos available with lighter trigger sets?

Mike: I looked at the HK30 and it may be a little too rich for my blood even if a supressor would be available for it--I run hot and cold on the supressor idea because they are very expensive.

Any input about guns, suppressors or whatever, is appreciated.

Thanks.


Top
Mike Smith
Posted: Nov 21 2011, 05:20 AM


Fulltimer
*

Group: CAMP HOST
Posts: 1,562
Member No.: 78
Joined: 31-August 09



I understand.

When I was told about the P-30, I thought "No way I'm spending $1000 on a handgun". Then I held one... At that point in time, I decided I really didn't "need" my Ruger LCR or my Stoeger Cougar, sold them both, added $200 and bought the P-30 all in a little over a week.
Top
traxtermax
Posted: Nov 21 2011, 02:58 PM


Newbie
*

Group: Camper
Posts: 55
Member No.: 216
Joined: 26-March 10



I investigated the P30 to see if a suppressor could be made for it. They told me that they thought an extra length bbl. (for the silencer threads) was available at HKparts.com (I thought you may be interested in the website); however, the price is large, the suppressor cost is great and the wait is an eternity. As a result, I'm totally giving up on the suppressor idea but want to take a look at the P30.
Top
donsm60
Posted: Nov 21 2011, 06:05 PM


Don...
*

Group: Co-Administrator
Posts: 2,822
Member No.: 51
Joined: 21-August 09



Not sure where youíre researching suppressor info but this site is outstanding and you donít have to register to post. Canít personally recommend a pistol frame caliber besides .22 rimfire but overall a fan of Gemtech products and Dr. Dater from Gemtech used to post on the site and may still be but Iím really out of the swing, to the point Iíve had a can at my dealer going on 3 years I havenít transferred. At one time there was a guy from the NFA branch posting there too. A very helpful NFA site if you havenít already found it.

Subguns
Top
jeffe
Posted: Nov 22 2011, 02:41 PM





Group: Camper
Posts: 13
Member No.: 56
Joined: 25-August 09



You might want top look at a Sig Sauer P250. This weapon is totally modular and can be configured from a full frame to a sub-compact, both grip and caliber sizes can be changed to meet your indivdual needs.

Unlike most Sigs, the P250 is available as a DA only.

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductList/pistols-p250.aspx

While I have no experience with the P250, I have owned several Sigs and still have both a P229 in 40 cal and a P230 in 380.

Sigs have a long tradition of accuracy and dependability and are used by many law enforcement agencies as standard issue.
Top
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
« Next Oldest | Firearms | Next Newest »
DealsFor.me - The best sales, coupons, and discounts for you

Topic Options



Hosted for free by InvisionFree* (Terms of Use: Updated 2/10/2010) | Powered by Invision Power Board v1.3 Final © 2003 IPS, Inc.
Page creation time: 0.1816 seconds | Archive