demons and angels

[digit]

ok im not sure but i want ur takes on this do u veiw demons as misunderstood fallen angels driven mad by time or dark creatures of destruction

[DF Mod LadyStarla]

You have interesting topics. I believe the Demons are Angels that sided with Satan and fell with him. Since they were once angels they can have a softer side to them, which is generally used to get someone to let down their guard, long enough for the real darkness in them to come out.

[isabel9710]

I think that much like the angels (with warriors and bringers of light, love, and messages) , demons also have a hierarchy and therefore different levels of evil-doing.


Does that make sense?


What I've always wondered was, can a lesser demon turn against Satan and be brought into God's loving light?

[Aneaglesangel]

Now I get the part about the fallen angels. What I wonder about is the lesser demons. I've sort of seen the place they come from, a dark land, where everything is dead. Did these beings exist and then just jump on the bandwagon with the fallen angels? Are they some type of life form that comes from some other place or dimension? I can see a fallen angel as a powerful being, one that could be anything, do anything, it has great power behind it. But these smaller imp like things, those are no fallen angels. Could they have existed and just been taken in by the fallen angels? Now I can't see a fallen angel being able to create anything, so I've never been able to make sense of these smaller beings. I sort of have an idea that there is a place that they come from, whether it be an actual place, or another type of dimension. Somehow I believe that they fell under the power of the fallen angels. I guess I always have to make sense of things, but these little guys, I can't see as fallen angels. But I sure can see them being under the power of them. For all I know they're some type of alien life form that has nothing to do with fallen angels, but I don't think that's the answer. I do believe the existed, or began to exist after the fall and somehow fell in with their crowd and now do their bidding. (I also think they enjoy doing it.)

[DF Mod LadyStarla]

I can't say I agree that everything can be neat tucked into Demon or Angel either. The bible states there are more things in heaven and on earth then we know. So many myths have stayed alive through time, one wonders if there isn't some truth to the tales. Elves, Pixes, house spirits, goblins and the like all have a common thread running through most cultures.

[DF Host Christine]

I think they are angels gone bad myself....and their "evil" is turned outward since they disgust themselves so much.

Bug that's just my basic thinking....I also think the "wrath" of God coming upon is form "good" angels can be just as scary and damaging.

[dvn1992]

I believe this to be untrue. This is what I know:
Angels have heaven, ruled by the seven Archangels.
Below them are regular angels
Demons have hell, ruled by the seven Archdemons, or the seven princes of hell.
Demons are alittle more complicated. Under the seven princes, are the 72 demons of goetia. And under them are the more common demons; darkness demons, dream demons, shades, fire demons, water demons, all of them.
Angels and demons can come to our plane, but the rules are stricter for the higher ranked angels and demons.
Regular angels, or saints, or whatever, and the 72 demons of goetia are required, BY LAW, to have no less than 2 escorts that can be a demonologist, exorcist, occultist, spiritualist, or otherwise.
The seven Archangels and the seven princes of hell are required to have a minimum of 5 escorts. Also while they are here, they are to cause no further influence to mankind than the already have.
When I saw "300" in the theater, i saw Satan, crowned prince of wrath, walk out of the theater with his 5 escorts. he said to me "That was a beautiful film wouldn't you agree?" I agreed "Though I must say," he continued "that does not even come close, the actual war was much more glorious." I was so temped to ask for his signature, but knew no one would believe it.
About a year later, I was 16, I was shopping in walmart considering buying a pack of monster when Asmodeus, crowned prince of lust, he was dressed in an all black suit with a vermillion tie, he had red iris's and his sclera, the whites of his eyes, were black, and he had a conversation with me;
"Hello" he said
"Hey" i said
"I can't decide," he said, "You're a mortal right?"
"yeah..." i said confused
"Good, I need to know," he motioned to the energy drinks, "which do you recommend?"
I grabbed a 4 pack of Monster of the shelf, "Well, I prefer moster, It's the only one that doesn't put my stomach through hell."
HE LAUGHED! It sounded like several people laughing at the same time in the same way!
He looked down at me smiling, I was staring at him like he had pulled a bicycle out of his ass.
"You have so much to learn," he said and then I saw him load a cart with the remaining cases of monster, even every case of monster java.
Then his escorts showed up. I found out he was here for one month for a business meeting, on the 15th of the month. that day was the 10th. in that day he had bought out an entire Spencer's!
A couple of months after that, I saw Saint fucking Michael, cursing out a meter maid. Not only had he gotten a ticket, it took his escorts from the Vatican an hour to calm him down. Funniest thing i have ever seen in my life.
now any angel or demon can get deported for an amount of time, but i don't know the specifics. But, I do know of two demons that serious conscideration of permanently banishing them is still being debated:
The demon queen Lamia, a demon known for her obsessive hunger for children. Yes, she eats children, and guess why she keeps getting deported!
Lamia has been deported a total of 573 times. She is required to have 20 escorts assigned to her, by the pope himself.
The other demon is the demon lord Leonard, he is the demon that is the very embodiment of terror, bloodshed, and manslauter. He is kill, kill, kill all the time.
Leonard has been deported a total of 1,895 times!!!!!
Yes, I want him forever banished, too.
But, anyway that is what i believe, any questions?

[Fr.Dan]

ok im not sure but i want ur takes on this do u veiw demons as misunderstood fallen angels driven mad by time or dark creatures of destruction

The older texts regarding demons indicate that they are bodiless (Coptic texts throw in headless, maybe just to be creepy or indicate an insensate, carnal nature). The Greek daimon, seems to hearken to a variety of powers, indicating a diversity. The early Christian and Jewish texts tend to support that fallen angel ideas, but being driven mad by time is not the cause of their evil. Angels are generally beings of a one track mind. Their will and God's will are inherently aligned. Thus if they choose to rebel, they cannot die, but simply pervert what for them was a divine plan. They become out of place aspects of God, thus what was just judgment become excessive, punishing anger. Generally, their error takes things that could be good in a specific context and displaces it.

They can only influence people who already present them with an opening, usually seen as a moral flaw or weakness, and turn from divine protection. They also need God's permission to torment someone. The beauty is that human's turning from divine will have second chances. Angels and demons do not. They are more or less stuck by most theologies. There is an ancient Christian belief in the apocatastasis, which outlines a reconciliation between God and all things (including demons and Satan himself), but this is generally viewed as heretical.

Common ideas around Milton's time was that after the Fall, the fallen angels powers began to weaken as they were disconnected from God. Lucifer goes from being an angel to disguising himself as a reptile. "Dark creatures of destruction" in this context is maybe giving them a little too much credit. They are reprehensible, treacherous, and (I'm told) disgusting to behold, but giving them fear or respect is not helpful.

There probably are other orders of spirits which are a little less black and white. Nature spirits may lean toward neutral, but as creation is "infected" by human sin, one would assume other beings would be flawed enough to generally not be very helpful, let alone have other's best interests in mind, thus the "trickster" nature that emerges in many nature spirits.

[learningtruth]

first lets clarify exactly what we are dealing with.

the idea angel to most people is incorrect becouse of ignorant depiction starting with greek roman catholic.

The story that has been twisted endlessly by endless councils of roman church WAS WRITTIN IN Aramaic and Ethiopic.

ANGEL = malak ملاك . means messanger.
later changed to the greek name aggelos which means benevolent semidivine beings

They simply were messangers to whom or what in the stars no one knows.

it is written some rebelled, some slept with man, and some were banished to earth.

to answer your question

I believe if i was banished to earth bodyless for 5000 years.
Had to live amongst beings that took presidence over me. I who was better than these things which were nothing more but modified animals.

every year day second would have driven me to a layer of insane hate unimaginable.

and as these things on earth evolved and when one is born with a higher state of mind that can be "touched" by these dissemodied biengs of hate.

they jump at us at any chance they can get.

these are what we call demons. this is why we fear dark. they come for us in a dream when they can if they fail, and you win.... good for you but your life will never be normal.

if they win and you loose. your basicly in the back seat watching someone else driving. And what they do while they have the wheel is not pretty.


remember spirits ghosts gods demons. these are decriptions of things ancient man could not understand.

we will progress when we can put a more modern and educated interpratation to old txts.

[Twinkle]

The Greek daimon has no Christian association whatsoever. It is neither an angel or a demon in the Christian sense of the word.

The Agathos Daimon is the protector of the household. It is often compared to a Guardian Angel.

Here is the wikipedia article on the Daimon or Daemon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_(classical_mythology)

From this text we can discern that there is some confusion with the Greek Daemon being associated with the Christian "demon". They are not the same and should not be confused.

While I do understand the view that anything not worshipped as Jesus is considered worshipping demons - we should understand that the cultural view of many indigenous religions - such as the ethnic Greeks, should be respected and understood.