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Title: Rosalee Rinears Fire Mountain Kennel


Spot - May 22, 2011 07:34 PM (GMT)
Is there anybody on this site who actually visited this kennel that could describe the operation and types of Rat Terriers she had in numbers and in types? Did she just sell pet type dogs or did she actually hunt them herself? Does anybody have any pictures of the stud and gyp dogs she used or possibly a old brochure from her operation?? Also, what years was she in business and when did she quit and what happened to the dogs she had for breeders?? Is there a way to trace the breeders she had to see if somebody bought them and continued the breeding strain she had??? Is she still in the dog business or has she retired?? does anybody know where she got her breeding stock and what sizes and colors did she have?? I am doing research on a pedigree i have and also was wondering if anybody has a way to search all the way back say 20 generations with the ukc????

Bridget - May 23, 2011 12:17 AM (GMT)
Try KnD Kennels, he still talks to Rosalie.

FromHangTown - May 23, 2011 04:15 AM (GMT)
Jacki would be a good choice. She had several of Rosalie's dogs from Buttonwillow.

Jackie - May 23, 2011 05:07 AM (GMT)
Will try to answer your questions. Yes, I visited Rosalie in Buttonwillow many times. She is my friend. Simple kennel, always clean, several dogs, all sizes, all types. She sold dogs as pets, hunting dogs, show dogs. Not really a formal hunter, but had an excellent eye and talent for producing a dog with the qualities she wanted. I never saw a brosure, don't think she ever had one. I became friends with her in 1990 or so and she had been breeding for several years. When she retired she let her daughter have most of the breeding dogs for a couple years then the dogs were dispersed. I was one of the few people that got the best dogs from her program, I was not planing on getting dogs at the time, but Rosalie asked as a special favor to her that I would take her favorite dogs. Several of us have extensive data bases with many of her dogs pedigrees, but what the heck would 20 generations tell you?

Spot - May 23, 2011 05:19 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Jackie @ May 23 2011, 12:07 AM)
Will try to answer your questions. Yes, I visited Rosalie in Buttonwillow many times. She is my friend. Simple kennel, always clean, several dogs, all sizes, all types. She sold dogs as pets, hunting dogs, show dogs. Not really a formal hunter, but had an excellent eye and talent for producing a dog with the qualities she wanted. I never saw a brosure, don't think she ever had one. I became friends with her in 1990 or so and she had been breeding for several years. When she retired she let her daughter have most of the breeding dogs for a couple years then the dogs were dispersed. I was one of the few people that got the best dogs from her program, I was not planing on getting dogs at the time, but Rosalie asked as a special favor to her that I would take her favorite dogs. Several of us have extensive data bases with many of her dogs pedigrees, but what the heck would 20 generations tell you?

What does "extensive data bases" actually mean?? Have a bunch of Decker people gotten together to buy all of the look back registrations in the percentage of Decker bloodlines?? When I was looking at the UKC charges its like $100 for a 20 generation pedigree, I was also interested in the photo or color look up they are talking about as well. I have always wondered what was the first rat terrier they registered and what did it look like and what color was it and who raised it. I have always wondered what state had the most registrations of rat terriers and were the registrations broken down by breeders back how far?? I thought when they single registered rat terriers one had to send in a picture of the dog to get it registered??? I have also wondered the same about the Animal Research Foundation, did they keep any of the papers and photos or just toss them in the trash after they got the registration money in the mail?? Has anybody actualy gone by the place in New York and tried to see if they have any archival material concering rat terriers??? As far as 20 generations if a person sold Rose a dog in the 70's that would go back far enuff to see if the dog was recorded and registered in her kennel. Another thing that comes up is UKC allowed persons who bought dogs from elesewhere to change the names of the dog on the paperwork the orginal breeder produced. Many different registeries do not allow this as it causes confusion when looking up pedigees. Another thing I was wondering about, if a person found a dog they sold in another breeders breeding program is there a way the ukc can say how many pups the dog sired and what were there names and who bought them etc etc?? The dog I am tracing was sold in the 70"s and showed up on a pedigree search somebody sent me while doing a lookup on Decker dogs connection to Fire Mountain. Thanks for any tips on what the UKC can furnish in regards to looking up old records and photos. I am still looking for old brochures from any rat terrier breeders, squirrel dog training books or any sales lists of squirrel dogs listed for sale in any publication including Squirrel Hunter Magazine, American Cooner and Dog World and Dog Fancy Magazine and Outdoor life magazine and Progressive Farmer Magazine classifieds etc etc. Thanks again. PS did you get any of the Rat Terrier papers and stud dogs and any old registrations of hers when she gave the dogs left to you??

Ken @ KnD - May 24, 2011 03:27 AM (GMT)
Spot,

You are asking questions,,, may I ask who you are??

Also,,, checking with UKCI can be useless,,, and yes people did change dogs names and they still are. It is not just UKC that allows that. It is very frustrating to pedigree addicts.

As for accuracy of UKCI,,, the New Your mob you mention,,, in many cases they are as honest as the breeders let them be,,, decker people will tell you that not all decker pedigrees are what they seem,,,, but that is another story for another day.

I know Jackie well enough to say that both her and I got a LOT of data from Rosalie personally,,, from the horse's mouth so to speak (sorry Rosalie).

Many have claimed to have FM lines,,, but will not or cannot prove it,,, but they want to use FM AND Decker as a selling point.

I seen a litter once named with Fire Mountain on thr front... Rosalie had not been within 100 miles of those dogs.

I use FM because I love it. I do keep %'s,,, but I do it for me?? I know a few Decker %'s too,,,, and I do not actually have decker dogs,,, but I like the influence that Decker and FM can have on dogs.

Emal me Spot,,,, tell us here or in email what the dog is you are researching... if you want info you must share a ittle more that just questions.

I would like to know more on why you are doing this research.... do you have dogs?

Ken of KnD
www.kndkennels.com


Spot - May 24, 2011 03:56 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Ken @ KnD @ May 23 2011, 10:27 PM)
Spot,

You are asking questions,,, may I ask who you are??

Also,,, checking with UKCI can be useless,,, and yes people did change dogs names and they still are. It is not just UKC that allows that. It is very frustrating to pedigree addicts.

As for accuracy of UKCI,,, the New Your mob you mention,,, in many cases they are as honest as the breeders let them be,,, decker people will tell you that not all decker pedigrees are what they seem,,,, but that is another story for another day.

I know Jackie well enough to say that both her and I got a LOT of data from Rosalie personally,,, from the horse's mouth so to speak (sorry Rosalie).

Many have claimed to have FM lines,,, but will not or cannot prove it,,, but they want to use FM AND Decker as a selling point.

I seen a litter once named with Fire Mountain on thr front... Rosalie had not been within 100 miles of those dogs.

I use FM because I love it. I do keep %'s,,, but I do it for me?? I know a few Decker %'s too,,,, and I do not actually have decker dogs,,, but I like the influence that Decker and FM can have on dogs.

Emal me Spot,,,, tell us here or in email what the dog is you are researching... if you want info you must share a ittle more that just questions.

I would like to know more on why you are doing this research.... do you have dogs?

Ken of KnD
www.kndkennels.com

Ken or anybody else, does anybody have an idea of what year the website that Roses daughter had on the web?? Any idea on what name it might have gone under? I would like to try to look it up on a lookback server to see if it can be found, I am also interested in any of the first websites of rat terriers or deckers. I have given up on getting the dog in question on here looked up due its being registered with United. But one question i have is when did the rat terriers and deckers all switch to another registry and what registry was it?? Does akc or ukc (other one) have a software lookup package to go back and search out pedigress??? Yes i have dogs, rat terriers, all registered in the USDR the last time and in the NKC as well, none tree inspected but the USDR dogs and the owner died young way back. I posted in the introduction section, will get my imageevent site up so you can see some of the old brochures from the 70's to 80's I used to mailout as well as other breeders. Most of the brochures back them were all clones of each other due to no internet and no real research on the history of the orginal rat terrier. But what is interesting is to search out the sizes and colors various breeders offered and who actually offered squirrel dog training pamplets with the pups selected to be sent out to hunters vs the ratters or pet types. regards Spot. I am curious if Fire Mountain had its own strain going at one time? Where did the dogs fire mountain breed come from???

Wildwood Deckers - May 24, 2011 04:42 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Spot @ May 23 2011, 10:56 PM)
I posted in the introduction section, will get my imageevent site up so you can see some of the old brochures from the 70's to 80's I used to mailout as well as other breeders.


Yes, you did post in the introduction section, however, you did not introduce yourself, perhaps you don't understand "introduction"... I'm Clyde, you are ???? (real name)...

I do believe I know who you are, however, I'm giving you the oportunity to introduce yourself to everyone else....

Thank you
Clyde

Ken @ KnD - May 24, 2011 03:12 PM (GMT)
Spot,

I am not sure what you hope to see on Fire Mountain's North site.... it said very little in the way of History.

You claim to know names and dogs ,,, of course you forgot your name but that is OK,,,, but why don't you ask Rosalie about Rosalie,,,,

I read your site and what you have had to say on other sites,,, and personally I believe you are a few sandwiches short of a picnic,, and loaded with self praise.

I do not handle that stuff well,,,,

You claim here that people here would not be any help to you.....

You sorta claim that you invented Rat Terriers,,,, and Rosalie and Mr. Decker ruined them... that will not get you a long way in ANY Rat Terrier circle.

I can show you 400 plus dogs downlined directly from you dog,,, a dog that you did not breed... but as you said,,, I am no help to you... and I would be no help... do not call me, I will call you.

Rover

Jackie - May 24, 2011 04:17 PM (GMT)
Ohhhh, I am a little slow, but I think I get it now. 'Spot" I have registration papers, both United and Universal on every dog and bitch I got from Rosalie. Also have a file cabinet full of pedigrees from Rosalie. If you are who I think you are then I have always felt that your negativity towards other breeders borders on insanity. I am so happy not to have to see the world thru your eyes.

Spot - May 24, 2011 07:14 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Ken @ KnD @ May 24 2011, 10:12 AM)
Spot,

I am not sure what you hope to see on Fire Mountain's North site.... it said very little in the way of History.

You claim to know names and dogs ,,, of course you forgot your name but that is OK,,,, but why don't you ask Rosalie about Rosalie,,,,

I read your site and what you have had to say on other sites,,, and personally I believe you are a few sandwiches short of a picnic,, and loaded with self praise.

I do not handle that stuff well,,,,

You claim here that people here would not be any help to you.....

You sorta claim that you invented Rat Terriers,,,, and Rosalie and Mr. Decker ruined them... that will not get you a long way in ANY Rat Terrier circle.

I can show you 400 plus dogs downlined directly from you dog,,, a dog that you did not breed... but as you said,,, I am no help to you... and I would be no help... do not call me, I will call you.

Rover

Please dont put words in my mouth, i came here in good faith to try to look up Rose, my understanding was that she had passed away, I just wanted to look at her dogs and info, I used to exchange letters with her 30 years ago but had lost her address. You are mistaken if you have traced any dog for me or from me to my knowledge, I came here from someone mailing me a pedigree that traced to dogs i sold ending up in her kennel that were on a Decker pedigree. I still dont understand how that happened or if it true, i just wanted to see who could look it up. Regardless of what you think of me I would have thought you would have tried to look up if there is really a connection or not. Thanks, will try to find the link on a archive somewhere. Spot

Ken @ KnD - May 24, 2011 07:42 PM (GMT)
JAMES KNIGHT,,,, at least be honest.

You said Rules JK Trooper.... in one post,,,, you did not breed that dog and it did not fall from the sky,,,, You are not the only one that has info on that particular dog.

If you want info on a dog,,, at least say what dog you are talking about.

You are fishing for info,,, but you will not say your name or the name of the dog you are BS'ing about. How the hell can ANYONE help you.

Your web page states roughly that you invented Rat Terriers,,, and Mr. Decker and Rosalie ruined the whole breed you created.

I disagree.... but if you feel that way,, great,, freedom of spech and all that but then why would you give a Rat Terrier's arse what Rosalie or Mr. Decker did if your dogs had nothing to do with them and your dogs were a closed line for 235 years.

Who is the lady you speak of that has pedigrees you are interested in,,,, WHAT ARE THOSE DOG"S NAMES????

If you want info do not come on here and act like a masked hero....

"I want info on a dog I cannot tell you about,, a lady I will not tell you about has told me stuff I cannot tell you'''' please help me.

Geees that sounds familiar.

Rover.

Jackie - May 24, 2011 07:49 PM (GMT)
Ken, thanks for posting what I was sitting here thinking....hehehehe.

Spot - May 25, 2011 01:11 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Ken @ KnD @ May 23 2011, 10:27 PM)
Spot,

You are asking questions,,, may I ask who you are??

Also,,, checking with UKCI can be useless,,, and yes people did change dogs names and they still are. It is not just UKC that allows that. It is very frustrating to pedigree addicts.

As for accuracy of UKCI,,, the New Your mob you mention,,, in many cases they are as honest as the breeders let them be,,, decker people will tell you that not all decker pedigrees are what they seem,,,, but that is another story for another day.

I know Jackie well enough to say that both her and I got a LOT of data from Rosalie personally,,, from the horse's mouth so to speak (sorry Rosalie).

Many have claimed to have FM lines,,, but will not or cannot prove it,,, but they want to use FM AND Decker as a selling point.

I seen a litter once named with Fire Mountain on thr front... Rosalie had not been within 100 miles of those dogs.

I use FM because I love it. I do keep %'s,,, but I do it for me?? I know a few Decker %'s too,,,, and I do not actually have decker dogs,,, but I like the influence that Decker and FM can have on dogs.

Emal me Spot,,,, tell us here or in email what the dog is you are researching... if you want info you must share a ittle more that just questions.

I would like to know more on why you are doing this research.... do you have dogs?

Ken of KnD
www.kndkennels.com

Looks like Rules name to me on the name aka Ivan Rule, Ivan is still alive and remebers selling dogs to her, talked to him the other day. Anyway you could post the pedigree of Rules JK Trooper, i dont have it. Its quite possible the dogs were registered in his name and then sold to Rose, funny about the initals, what do they stand for anyway?? I could be wrong, we could get Ivan over here to set the record straight if anybody cares to check from the seller about where that dog came from and who bred it, for sure you or i dont know because you were not in the US and I was not at the sale either. Whats the big deal about asking for a lookup pedigree anyway, its said everybody welcome on the forum introduction i clciked on???

edrats - May 28, 2011 06:01 AM (GMT)
I guess the question here would be...What's your beef James? Do you have some kind of problem with the fact that several generations back there is a dog in a pedigree of a Decker dog that might have been one of your dogs? Do you wish to somehow get credit for that? Because if that is what you wish...if your name is on it, you can have credit. I always assumed Rules JK Trooper probably meant that Rule got the dog from you and sold it to Rosalie. I had been told he was a dog broker. I wasn't told that by Dad...Dad never got any pups from him and had no dealings with him. So yes...I believe your name is back there...What does that mean? Rosalie got a dog from Rule, bred it to dogs she got from Dad...and that sort of thing was, and still is, done. How does this mean you were wronged? Rosalie got a lot of dogs from us back in the day. There are a lot of people out there that breed Fire Mountain line Rat Terriers, and there is Decker blood behind them, but they don't acknowledge the name Decker except that it is on the pedigree. Is that somehow wrong? I don't think so. They are breeding for something, and it is not the Decker part. So, if you have a line of Rat Terriers that is the result of 50 years of your own closed breeding program, and they are the best in the world, I say, Fantastic! Let's see them. And, why would you care if Rule sold one to Rosalie 30 plus years ago and she bred it? (on a side note...How can you possibly suggest that breeding in 1 basenji over 30 years ago ruined the entire Rat Terrier? How many Chihuahuas have been bred in over the years? More than 1 I assume.) I see a picture of 1 dog on your site treeing a dead rat...is that one of yours? Tell us more about your program and how the dog treeing the rat is the best in the world? If you came here in good faith to have an honest conversation, have one. Start, next time, by telling us who you are. We would be welcoming to you if you were truly here to have a conversation. You have it in your mind that you were wronged, but if you have a line of Rat Terriers, your result of 50 years of breeding, and they have no Decker or Fire Mountain blood in them, then you can blame no one but yourself, or pat no one's but your own back, for what they are today. When you popped onto the scene a year or 2 ago, I thought it might be fun to visit with you and I might be able to learn from you...but you quickly showed that you don't want to visit and have a decent conversation...you are nothing but sour grapes...too bad I guess...I'm sure you have a lot of knowledge, but you are too angry over some kind of wrong you think was made to you to even converse.

I wish to take no credit from you James Knight. If you sent a dog to Mexico to hunt Jaguars, I believe you, and I think that is great. Do you really think your dog was the only one in the world that ever did that? Maybe, or maybe not? Same with the calling them Giant Rat Terriers...so you called them that at one time, and someone else started calling dogs they had Decker Giants...how did you get harmed by this? Did you somehow patent the word Giant? BTW...we never called them Decker Giants...

Now James...If you truly came here in good faith to have a good conversation, you are totally welcome...if you are here to be bitter and lob grenades...then I guess lob away...

Lil Ellis


Ken @ KnD - May 28, 2011 03:43 PM (GMT)
Very good post....

If we want to talk pedigrees,, talk. I love pedigree stuff... most of us do. It is an addiction.

As for who bred what and who MIGHT have added what 30 plus years ago,,,, that is old news to most of us. Breeding was very different in 1975 than 2005.... for the most part people now do not add stuff (I fear one or two do but that is me).... but in 1975,,,, people like Rosalie, Mr. Decker and indeed James Knight,,,, got dogs with and without papers..as they sought to make a dog,, make a breed .... the Rat Terrier we see today was "developing".... things were added,,,,, GET OVER IT.

I love Rosalie and I love Fire Mountain..... I have had very few conversations with Mr. Decker Senior,,,, but I have never seen him deny that he got dogs from all areas across America,,, as he bred to his "vision"... to make a dog that HE wanted,,,, he has said here numerous times that he began to Register them as Rat Terriers as that was what they were..... if anyone feels that is wrong,,, take it up with Universal.... as they claim to have invented the Rat Terrier....

These two people,,, Rosalie and Mr. Decker have been a huge influence on the breed.... like it or not... positve or negative depending who we hear carry on... but my outlook has always been that Decker and Fore Mountain lines have never been compulsory.... if you love them,, love them with all your heart,,,, if you do not desire or prefer them,,, move on,,, there are a lot of lines for a breeder to consider.

I will add one thing for Mr. Knight,,,,,, Self praise is not praise at all when we look at it with both eyes open. It is hot air.

If a person claims to have 50 years of breeding,, and has bred to a plan,,,, whether that plan is my "vision" or not I would love to see examples from that 50 years...... I have seen some from claims of other so called experts,,,, and I was underwhelmed...

Mr. Knight.. I would love to see your actual dogs,,,, I have seen the claims,,, you claim to have multiple web pages and I can find only one,,, where foundation breeders are trashed.... that achieves nothing. That one dog you show with the rat,,, maybe that is a pet or a rescue ,,, but I would not expect that dog to be 50 years in the making.

Pictures of your years of breeding would speak 1,000 words as they say.

I am ready.

Ken Jones
www.kndkennels.com


Michelle - May 28, 2011 06:34 PM (GMT)
Ellis and Ken, well done gentlemen!

Bill Warner - May 28, 2011 09:07 PM (GMT)
I would like to see some pictures! Living in Texas i know we have cameras just for this purpose.
Bill







Slickrock Deckers - May 30, 2011 01:42 AM (GMT)

Well. this board had been rather quiet lately. I like history. Do we have enough sandwiches for a picnic yet?

Rosalie - June 1, 2011 08:25 AM (GMT)
This is Rosalie Rinear of Fire Mountain Rat Terriers.
I purchased Rules J.K. Trooper through Ivan Rule.
I named the dog J.K. to help me remember he was bred by James Knight.
First and foremost I bred RTs as hunting dogs that busted their buttons to please their owners.
And yes they did/do hunt. "Little" two times CA hog/pig dog champion.
Little did this with only three legs. If Little had any JK Trooper in his pedigree you are welcome to take full credit for his hunting abilities.
I have NO records. Everything is GONE. However, there are several breeders that I gave records to-- thank goodness.
I have to go on my memory. Im 70, if I dont remember something correctly someone please correct me.
So James, just what is it you want to know.
FYI I called my BIG Deckers Decker Giants. Get over it. We should all be in this breed for the breed not self gain.

ohrats - June 1, 2011 02:31 PM (GMT)
Hi Rosalie Good to hear you are a live and kicking.

As to Mr Knoght - Life is not fair and my answer to you, Oh heck, I am not going there. Rosalie was kind enough to give you credit for Rule's JK Trooper back in the days of renaming was the thing to do. Rosalie could of done what everyone else did and named Trooper - Fire Mtn's Trooper. The National Stock Dog's way of keeping record years ago, was every time a dog changed hands, the new owner's name was put on the front of the name. With them, Trooper's name would have been Fire Mtn's Rule's Knight's Trooper. Is that what you have howling about ? Seeing your name shorten to JK.
And Mr Knight, I am not a new person to the Rat Terriers. My grandfather, Mr E.R. (Duke) Harrison had Rat Terriers and he sent Rat Terriers to No CA, to westside and all the way to in Mexico back in the '60's So if anyone has a beef, may be I should . I look at some the old pictures. I see some of Old Rosey, Old Moon, Old Tony etc. in them.

And Rosalie Good to hear from you I am so happy your are still out there GIVE THEM HELL

Ken @ KnD - June 1, 2011 03:00 PM (GMT)
Rosalie,

I love you and I love what you have done,,,, I will tell anyone that will listen.

If people do not want or like FM dogs,,, I will take all they have.... send them here to me.

I smile when I see people trash lines including FM,,,, then I see them using FM dogs to fix their crap.... abd they think no-one is looking.

lol

Rosalie.... I owe you more than I can repay for your influence on my dogs and my thinking.

You mention your memory,,,, do not forget one thing,,,, you have forgotten more than many (me) will ever know. I have pestered you from the first time I met you for help and advice..... I have never emailed Mr. Knight once.... maybe that says more than I can.

Rosalie,,,, you nor Mr. Decker NEVER need to defend yourselves to ANYONE... Decker/FM dogs are not compulsory,,, you have never held a gun to anyone's head to take dogs..... I will let my dogs talk for us both Rosalie....

We have seen people claim their dogs are Decker dogs,,, or FM dogs,,,, even falsify records so they can show their version of "proof",,,,, I wonder why......

You Rosalie have never made outlandish claims,,,, you have produced dogs and said "here they are"....

Mr. Knight along with others have claimed to have been breeding for 235 years,,, never had a bad dog,,, never had an issue,,,, BUT ask to see a dog,,,, and they disappear.... Mr. Knight has been asked numerous times to show more of his dogs,,,, these dogs 422 years in the making... 50 years of closed breeding to produce HIS Rat Terrier type,,,,,, again Mr. Knight,,,, Let's see them. Is that such an unreasonable ask when someone says they have this and they have that,,,,, show us this AND that.

It appeas if we wish that Mr. Knight stops posting we only need to ask that he shows us those dogs,,, those 4 web sites of dogs and stuff he claims to have .... that 50 years of intelligent breeding,,,,, simple pics.

If my dogs were half as good as Mr. Knight clims his to be I would them to EVERYONE.....

Rosalie Rinear.... Again I love you,,, YOU walk the walk,,,, others talk the talk..... one is easier.

Do FM dogs have issues,,, of course they do,,, what a stupid claim it would be to say FM dogs or ANY dogs are perfect,,, ALL lines,,, yes ALL lines Mr. Knight, have issues. We breed the best and we pet out the rest.... or we should.... isn't that real breeding...

I can do that or I can hide my dogs and claim I have the best in the world and they all come from Rosalie,,, or Mr. Decker,,,, BUT I cannot get my camera or the web to work,,, and I cannot find my pedigrees,,,, but just take my word,,,, lol lol lol

Ken Jones
www.kndkennels.com

Rosalie - June 1, 2011 03:33 PM (GMT)
Ohrats, are you my dear loyal friend Roxanne??

Jackie - June 1, 2011 04:14 PM (GMT)
Ny goodness Rosalie, so glad to hear from you! My respect for you is sooo great. What you have done for these dogs is amazing. Thank you, again! Love you, Jackie

ohrats - June 1, 2011 04:26 PM (GMT)
The one and only - half baked, half crazy and totaly insane - Roxanne

Take care Rosalie and as I have said inthe past - If Rosalie said - To stand on my head and I would bred better Rat Terriers, I would.
Oh by the way, Captain, the son of CH Fire Mtn's King Roy, you liked, is still alive and kicking. 16 and half years old. You said, he was a good one. (Well honestly you said - If you neuter this dog, I will personaly drop kick you to the moon) And you were right, he is a good one. Roy, I am sorry to say only lived to be over 15 years old.

Rosalie - June 1, 2011 05:20 PM (GMT)
My dear Roxanne. I think of you often.
I remember this ALOT. You called me one night in tears. Said that you couldnt hold out any longer breeding Rat Terriers. Every time you had a puppy sold they would talk to other breeders that would tell them you bred Fire Mountain dogs and they were at the bottom of the garbage heap in quality. Another sale lost.
I asked you about where the first dog you got from me was. That was King Roy, he was eight years old and retired to just farm life. I told you there were shows nearby you that next weekend. Give OLD Roy a bath and take him to those shows because OLD Roy was going to kick their royal fannies.You werent too keen on the idea but trusted me enough to do it.
You have a picture of OLD Roy flying around that show ring like he was in his prime and he did show them all what an over the hill FM dog could do. Heres mud in your eyes!! He showed them if FM is so bad yours must be worse . Shut them up.
Could you post that picture here along with his birthdate and sire and dam. I have a reason besides being darn proud of that old man.
Love and hugs

Rosalie - June 1, 2011 05:33 PM (GMT)
Hey Jackie,you are another dear loyal friend that stuck by my side when things were bad. I wouldnt have made it through without the support of a few friends.I appreciate your frienship more than words can ever say.
Love and hugs

Rosalie - June 1, 2011 07:00 PM (GMT)
Hey Ken, You have done more to improve and further the FM bloodline than I could have ever hoped for. Thank you and other breeders that have cared enough to carry on with FM. That means a lot to me.
Love and hugs to you all

Milton - June 1, 2011 07:10 PM (GMT)
I applaud ole "Spot" for getting this, very enjoyable subject started. Rosalie----If you would care to share stories about where and from whom you got breeding stock from, I for one, would love to know and see it written down for history of the breed. If not, that's alright too. Milton

Michelle - June 1, 2011 07:14 PM (GMT)
Not a breeder but a Fire Mountain owner that got our girl direct from Buttonwillow. Nike 14 years young 4/26/1997. Thank you Rosalie for her.
Dam FM Perky Penny Sire FM Kahlua
user posted image

Rosalie - June 1, 2011 09:28 PM (GMT)
What I should have done is contacted you and asked you to help me select from your dogs suitable RTs for my foundation kennel.Would have saved me a TON of money and time beating the bushes for RTs all over the U.S.
Out of maybe 100 dogs/pups shipped to me I kept maybe 20-- that may be high.
They were big surprises. I spent about a week trying to figure out what each one was and try and figure out what breeds went into it. But, what they all did have were SPOTS !!
Ivan delivered, I think, a van full of dogs to Buttonwillow. From him,Cajon, and Arlene Sherrod ,Montana. That was a really interesting load of dogs.I kept quit a few.
I have no records left. I cant remember the dogs I started with.
Im talking RTs not what I called Decker Giants.
Topsy Turvy and her sister,Yours through Cajon Kennels in WA. Cant remember her name. Two very nice females.
If I had old pedigrees I could pick them out and say where I got them

NRTA has every scrap I ever sent her Anything and everything. Thats scary!!

My first RT was Tonka. Bred by you. 22 inches 50# A hunting fool. No training he just did it all natural. He was dear to my heart.
Wish I could be of more help.
Cajon was Karen Myers ( I get flashbacks LOL )

Rosalie - June 1, 2011 10:45 PM (GMT)
Maybe James feels like this.

1. I was THERE the day the first or close to the first Performance Morgan Horse ripped into the showring!!I gasped, stood up and uttered----- WHAT in the hell is that!!! We now have the Performance Morgan and the Classic Morgan. Im still not a happy camper on this one.

2. I was THERE when a great little herding dog known as the Australian Shepherd was over taken by a sudden on the scene big hairy gorgeous counterfiet. It is now the Australian Shepherd. The real Aussie is now known as the Minature Australian Shepherd. OH, do I dare say the breeder of the big hairy gorgeous dogs also bred Collies. No Id better not do that. This one still makes me want to smack someone. DAh, difference of night and day.

When we put our hearts and souls into our breed we tend to be very protective.

Rosalie - June 2, 2011 01:37 AM (GMT)
Thank you Michelle for the lovely picture of Nike. I sure can see Perky Penny in her. Nice Decker line. Deckers Perky always produced really nice pups and I kept several back for breeding.Brings back memories, thanks again

Michelle - June 2, 2011 02:46 AM (GMT)
Rosalie,
I will repost this even though I have posted it before:
I was so impressed when we drove up to your place, clean and very ..best word is...STRUCTURED. We had to take our shoes off before entering, we could hold the pups but to keep them safe from "stuff" we could not put them on the ground. You showed us the birthing area and then the area with the moms/pups. You had several, what I thought were refrig boxes, cut down, to hold the puppies for viewing. We saw the Decker Giants and I thought OMG, they look awesome but way more dog than I could handle! Outside, on the shade end against the south east side of the house were the outdoor kennels. Clean and happy doggies is all I remember. Fresh washed kennels, you had your blonde/ash hair back in a pony tail with a little sweat on your forehead at 10AM. Your jeans were well used and I even noticed your boots since you took them off before entering the house.
My husband Mike remembers the truck driver that was there that same day. He had just lost his buddy. We talked about how the breed "must nest under the covers at night". Oh yeah and the race car track in Buttonwillow is still the highlight of my husbands memories:-)

ohrats - June 2, 2011 04:56 AM (GMT)
Rosalie - Here is some of what you asked for - CH Fire Mtn's King Roy born Nov 8, 1994 sire - Fire Mtn's Johnny Ringo dam - Terri Rules Roy was well 8 years old when he went out in to the showring. Earned his CH under 5 judges. Rosalie - Terri lived to be 12 years old. She passed away sleeping on our bed, peacefully. As to the picture, I do not know how to post them, sorry.
Some more info on old Fire Mtn dogs - Fire Mtn's Studly (remaned Dudly) passed on this spring. I think he was over 16 years.I think he was a Dandy & Penny son. Mary's brother Linnie just loved him. Those two were always togehter, you could say joined at the hip. Gold panning, to the dump, to the bank, where ever Linnie was, there was Dudly. Up north, there is another good old Fire Mtn dog. I will go thru some of my stuff and get names, etc. This old guy is over 15 years and looking good. I want to check with them before posting their names on the broad. Old Dottie, I had her a couple years, then she became a traveling to a lady for a few more years. The lady needed a friend and Dottie wanted a buddy.
The two pups that were turned down by every one as junk - were the two you took. As you said - If people are too stupid to get them, I'll take them. Elis are you sitting down ? Faith was one of the junk dogs. Jackie took her out and in one weekend she started and finished her CH. I hope the 5 people that changed their minds at the last minute, are still happy with their better dogs.
It has been a long road with it's ups and downs. Boy, I could tell you some fun stories and some sad stories.

Rosalie - June 2, 2011 10:35 AM (GMT)
Thanks Roxanne for the trip down memory lane.I cant remember the background on any of them. Those were all bred by me. I loved it back in my young days. I could walk through my kennel and tell you three generations on every dog there.Im 70, feel 40, but my brain keeps giving my age away.

Thank heavens I copied a LOT/most of my records and registration certificates
and sent them to Margaret at NRTA. Included were all my original foundation stock.
Reg certificates and all of their pedigrees I was able to dig up through the years.
Some of them were the old Patterson/Jones bloodlines.Margaret told me she has copied and saved every scrap I ever sent her. She pretty much has it all.Thank goodness because I have NOTHING left.


I remember your Faith pup.I knew she was special the minute I saw her.
Thanks again for all of your help and support.


Milton - June 2, 2011 02:50 PM (GMT)
Rosalie----Can you tell us anything about Jim Johnson and his Sycamore Flats breeding program, dogs, and other interesting stuff? Milton

For starters, I remember that his Spike and our Kodiak were littermates. They were huge in their litter. As they grew, we started playing with them, as a pair, and calling them our "Bear Dogs". Anyway, we kept our pick and sent Jim J. the very slightly smaller, one that he named Spike. At this time, our kids were nearly grown and we were starting to wind down our breeding.

The point and significance of all this is that while our Kodiak was a wonderful hunter and pet, he was nearly sterile. We bred him five times and got only one small litter. Jim named his pup Sycamore Flats Spike and Spike sired a true dynasty of great hunting dogs. If we had kept him and sent Kodiak, the breed would be quite different today.

Incidentally, the only son of Kodiak that I saw after grown, Lindseth's Rowdy, looked exactly like Spike. He was about 48 pounds and a great hunter----He was never bred. Milton

Rosalie - June 2, 2011 03:02 PM (GMT)
Roxanne, was it you that has an old picture of a strain of large Rat Terrier in WA ?
The dog was white, drop ears, a dead ringer for my Tonka and Henry. Looked to be an OLD farmstead and the dog was standing next to what looked to be a light draft horse.

Rosalie - June 2, 2011 03:28 PM (GMT)
Milton,I never had any contact with him. Dean Dickison did. Bred to his dogs got pups. I think he acquired my Calico Kate, dont know what he renamed her. I really wanted Kate back but he beat me to her. I THINK she was out of Marcella?? Dean may have Spike sired dogs???? Or maybe in background one two generations back. Dean might know of someone that has him in their bloodlines. I remember Dean talking about Spike.

edrats - June 2, 2011 03:54 PM (GMT)
Rosalie...It's a pleasure to have you join in on this conversation!

Ellis




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