Council Of Heaven -> What if Japan was conquered

What if Japan was conquered

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ugabug	Posted: Jan 21 2008, 11:12 AM
The dog of Wu Group: Members Posts: 522 Member No.: 8 Joined: 11-October 07	What if after the first Mongol invasion the Japanese never built walls and the Mongols were able to find a spot to land there invasion force would Japan be conquered and if so would it change anything in history? -------------------- I shall chase away the rats of Wei and the cats of Shu Why not give this a try they have a Sangokushi RP http://z15.invisionfree.com/General_Discus...dex.php?act=idx or try this World history forum http://z11.invisionfree.com/World_History_...dex.php?act=idx Playing as Toshiie Meada War-79 Int-70 Lea-79 Pol-64 Chr-87 (Proficent) Skill 1: Warriors fire-Any unit Toshiie defeats adds 500 troops to Toshiie's unit and gives a small moral boost. Skill 2: Ruthlessness- When Toshiie unit is at 30% of it's original strength, it gets a large morale and strength boost.

Hannibal ad portas	Posted: Jan 24 2008, 11:47 AM
Member Group: Members Posts: 96 Member No.: 41 Joined: 5-January 08	In my opinion no, Japan was a totally different story to the other country's the Mongals had conquered. Japan's hilly landscape would be a huge disadvantage for the Mongal's, and this is also the main reason i think they could never have conquered Europe. -------------------- Many things which nature makes difficult become easy to the man who uses his brains. Hannibal Barca I had rather have a plain russet-coated captain that knows what he fights for, and loves what he knows, than that which you call a gentleman and is nothing else. Oliver Cromwell

Shogun

Posted: Jan 24 2008, 03:26 PM

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QUOTE (Hannibal ad portas @ Jan 24 2008, 08:47 PM)

In my opinion no, Japan was a totally different story to the other country's the Mongals had conquered. Japan's hilly landscape would be a huge disadvantage for the Mongal's, and this is also the main reason i think they could never have conquered Europe.

It's pretty simple, they couldn't have. It was Genghis Khan who happened to arrive in the right time and the right place in a time of turmoil, while war-torn China already had conflicts between the Jin and Song dynasties and Europe was struggling. Once the Mongols were established, it became easy for them.

IMHO, the Mongol empire was a product of circumstance.

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scholar	Posted: Jan 24 2008, 04:28 PM
Member Group: Administrators Posts: 1546 Member No.: 4 Joined: 26-September 07	so... how would you compare Chingis Khan to Hannibal or the Khalid then? -------------------- Planning A Coup

Shogun	Posted: Jan 25 2008, 01:58 AM
Mutsu no kami Group: Members Posts: 488 Member No.: 12 Joined: 28-October 07	We're picking out people from very different time periods again. I don't think Chinggis or Genghis was a military genius at all, he did know how to prepare and maneuver but like I said, he arrived at the right time. -------------------- Mouri Motonari Skill 1: Schemer- Any and all tactics used within 5 turns of using this skill, will not fail. Skill 2: Naval Superiority- In any Naval combat, Motonari will have a superb advantage. Skill 3: Poison Strategy - All arrows you possess are now Poisoned. Skill 4: Naval Warfare Strategy - All Ships you possess are now 3x as strong as they were WAR: 65(45) +20 (40 points) LEAD: 80(55) +25 (40 points) INT: 80(56) +24(48 points) POL: 83(pro=66) +12 (68 points) CHA: 80(53) +27 (54 points)

Hannibal ad portas

Posted: Jan 25 2008, 04:59 AM

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QUOTE (scholar @ Jan 24 2008, 04:28 PM)

so... how would you compare Chingis Khan to Hannibal or the Khalid then?

Are you deliberately trying to start another big Jerk debate scholar? lol

It would be really hard and stupid to compare Hannibal and Khalid to Ghengis Khan.

QUOTE

I don't think Chinggis or Genghis was a military genius at all

Im of the same opinion! However he did have one of the greatest grand strategist in history by his side, and that was the great Subutai, who in my opinion was a military genius.

This post has been edited by Hannibal ad portas on Jan 25 2008, 05:00 AM

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Many things which nature makes difficult become easy to the man who uses his brains.
Hannibal Barca

I had rather have a plain russet-coated captain that knows what he fights for, and loves what he knows, than that which you call a gentleman and is nothing else.
Oliver Cromwell

Hannibal ad portas	Posted: Jan 25 2008, 05:02 AM
Member Group: Members Posts: 96 Member No.: 41 Joined: 5-January 08	Sorry for double posting, but jerk seems to replace a.s.s, which is annoying. -------------------- Many things which nature makes difficult become easy to the man who uses his brains. Hannibal Barca I had rather have a plain russet-coated captain that knows what he fights for, and loves what he knows, than that which you call a gentleman and is nothing else. Oliver Cromwell

Shogun	Posted: Jan 25 2008, 08:00 AM
Mutsu no kami Group: Members Posts: 488 Member No.: 12 Joined: 28-October 07	Tell me about it. You guys should fix the filters, they sound stupid. -------------------- Mouri Motonari Skill 1: Schemer- Any and all tactics used within 5 turns of using this skill, will not fail. Skill 2: Naval Superiority- In any Naval combat, Motonari will have a superb advantage. Skill 3: Poison Strategy - All arrows you possess are now Poisoned. Skill 4: Naval Warfare Strategy - All Ships you possess are now 3x as strong as they were WAR: 65(45) +20 (40 points) LEAD: 80(55) +25 (40 points) INT: 80(56) +24(48 points) POL: 83(pro=66) +12 (68 points) CHA: 80(53) +27 (54 points)

scholar	Posted: Jan 25 2008, 08:10 AM
Member Group: Administrators Posts: 1546 Member No.: 4 Joined: 26-September 07	i ment no harm, i was just curious on what you would have to say... and i also would have thought you would put Chinggis in a better position... Jerk thread, no i just want a good honest debate -------------------- Planning A Coup

Blue Faced Beast

Posted: Jan 25 2008, 10:17 AM

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QUOTE (ugabug @ Jan 21 2008, 10:12 AM)

What if after the first Mongol invasion the Japanese never built walls and the Mongols were able to find a spot to land there invasion force would Japan be conquered and if so would it change anything in history?

If I remember correctly it wasn't Genghis that tried to conquer Japan in the first place, it was Kublai Khan. Also, if memory serves, it was only the "divine wind" that saved them...BOTH times. As for his ability, I think of him more of a medieval Mongolian

. Great leader of men, a great ruler of people, and...well, in order to conquer the vast territory he did in only 25 years...he had to have some knowledge of tactics, he couldn't have taken Subutai to every battle that took place.

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Hannibal ad portas

Posted: Jan 25 2008, 12:42 PM

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QUOTE

If I remember correctly it wasn't Genghis that tried to conquer Japan in the first place, it was Kublai Khan. Also, if memory serves, it was only the "divine wind" that saved them...BOTH

Yes Ghengis Khan was dead around this time, i can't remember if it was Kublai or Ogodei that was the great Khan at this time.

QUOTE

great ruler of people, and...well, in order to conquer the vast territory he did in only 25 years...he had to have some knowledge of tactics, he couldn't have taken Subutai to every battle that took place.

I wasn't implying that Ghengis wasn't a great general and i don't think Shogun meant that either, we were just saying we don't consider him a military genius. Subutai was also in the campaigns in Mongolia, northern China, and Central Asia with Ghengis Khan.

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Blue Faced Beast

Posted: Jan 25 2008, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE (Hannibal ad portas @ Jan 25 2008, 11:42 AM)

QUOTE

If I remember correctly it wasn't Genghis that tried to conquer Japan in the first place, it was Kublai Khan. Also, if memory serves, it was only the "divine wind" that saved them...BOTH

Yes Ghengis Khan was dead around this time, i can't remember if it was Kublai or Ogodei that was the great Khan at this time.

QUOTE

I realize this, and I already told you it was Kublai Khan, not Ogodei.

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Shogun	Posted: Jan 26 2008, 02:34 AM
Mutsu no kami Group: Members Posts: 488 Member No.: 12 Joined: 28-October 07	The 'kamikaze' only saved them once, not both times. The Japanese were prepared for the second invasion and built a blockade surrounding Kyushu, which forced the Mongols to give up. -------------------- Mouri Motonari Skill 1: Schemer- Any and all tactics used within 5 turns of using this skill, will not fail. Skill 2: Naval Superiority- In any Naval combat, Motonari will have a superb advantage. Skill 3: Poison Strategy - All arrows you possess are now Poisoned. Skill 4: Naval Warfare Strategy - All Ships you possess are now 3x as strong as they were WAR: 65(45) +20 (40 points) LEAD: 80(55) +25 (40 points) INT: 80(56) +24(48 points) POL: 83(pro=66) +12 (68 points) CHA: 80(53) +27 (54 points)

Blue Faced Beast

Posted: Jan 26 2008, 11:27 PM

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QUOTE (Shogun @ Jan 26 2008, 01:34 AM)

The 'kamikaze' only saved them once, not both times. The Japanese were prepared for the second invasion and built a blockade surrounding Kyushu, which forced the Mongols to give up.

Nope, it saved them BOTH times. You need to brush up on your history. The second occurred on the 15th of August, 1281 in the Genkai Sea.

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Shogun

Posted: Jan 27 2008, 06:38 AM

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QUOTE (Blue Faced Beast @ Jan 27 2008, 08:27 AM)

QUOTE (Shogun @ Jan 26 2008, 01:34 AM)

The 'kamikaze' only saved them once, not both times. The Japanese were prepared for the second invasion and built a blockade surrounding Kyushu, which forced the Mongols to give up.

Nope, it saved them BOTH times. You need to brush up on your history. The second occurred on the 15th of August, 1281 in the Genkai Sea.

Source.

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