Blech. War is my least favorite thing on the planet. How can we call ourselves civilized when we solve our international disagreements through sending men in to kill each other?

War doesn't determine who's right, but who's left. :/

Your first comment is best fit for those whom we are fighting. They have a disagreement with us (they hate western culture, want us to conform to their religion, etc), and they send men (hiding behind women and children) to kill our innocent. No, I don't believe these people are civilized, not in the slightest (this refering to the Jihadists, not the Middle East as a whole).

Of course, America didn't simply barge into the Middle East because we "disagreed" with them, we went in because thousands died at the hands of terrorists, and because seemingly reliable intelligence told us that there was an immenant threat from Saddam (who also harbored terrorists). This isn't killing out f disagreement, it's war in order to protect the innocent and destroy a murderous network of terrorism. I know war doesn't "determine who's right", but I think it can be seen pretty clearly.

Three quotes readily come to mind.

One, which I've already said, is "War doesn't determine who's right, but who's left."

Then there's "An eye for an eye makes us all blind."

And lastly, "Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity."

One thing that's always bugged me about the Left is their perception that small quotes of rediculous logic are a good argument. "Impeach Bush", "Bush lied, people died", and so on.

"War doesn't determine who's right, but who's left." - That is only in the immediate sense, history eventually shows the just and unjust nature of each side. This is not saying that war cannot be for a just reason, it only shows that the side who is morally lacking integrity can also win.

"An eye for an eye makes us all blind." - Yes, but when it comes to those who kill innocent American women and children and use their own women and children as shields, I honestly think the eye concept should be abandoned in preference to the protection of the innocent.

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity." - Boy, do I hate this one. Totally false. Look at the Police Force fighting against drugs. Are they fighting for peace? Absolutely! Fighting terrorists who wish to kill innocents whether we stay out of their hair or not is most definitely fighting for peace. (here's a good quote, it's used by the Marines; "if you want peace, prepare for war")

Noooo, I beg to differ, Spoons.

But unfortunately, I must away to me sleep-time. I'll dream up a good argument.

nerdy have you ever read (heard ect.) the speech "Give me Liberty or give me Death!" it is so powerful and moving, its about he we shouldnt just sit back against the wall while there is injustice in the world. its about how its our duty (a Roman concept formed) to fight for what we believe.

ever heard of "Might is Right"

sadly in the middle east this is how they function and it is wrong, there are people killed every day for idk, showing their wrist, not doing the exact temple rituals, ridiculous stuff.

in America we have found a wonderfull thing called freedim, why not use it and share it?

Other governments, no matter how evil they are, are really none of our business unless the other country CHOOSES to make it our business. I don't think the entire world should think the same things that Americans do.

true nerdy, our ideas shouldnt be forced on people but should they still be an option? these people have no choice on whether they want to be oppressed.

Who would want to be oppressed? lol America does not mean "the whole world's ideas". America means a strip of land in North America who thinks that they are always right.

I agree. Political ideologies are are best figured out by a country by itself, no matter how long it takes. It's kind of like listening to your parents , they tell you to wear a coat when it's cold again and again, and it's not until you actually get sick that you actually take their advice.

I think their something ridiculously wrong that people feel that military enforcing freedom does anything. What message are we trying to get across, exactly? Adopt Democracy, Be Free or we'll shoot you? That seems extraordinarily hypocritical to me.

Yes. "Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity." Ahhhh, I love that quote.

"Other governments, no matter how evil they are, are really none of our business..." Ok Nerdy, in that case, who cares about Darfur? None of our business if dictators are killing thousands upon thousands. What kind of logic is that? Fyi, Iraq wasn't entirely about the murderous dictatorship of Saddam, we also saw an immenent threat. And we gave Iraq Democracy, which gives the people of Iraq the ability to choose their own government while we work with them and assist in their growth as a peaceful country with those who would want it destroyed along with America attempting just that every day.

I'm pro-war for that reason, and that reason only! I'm glad we got Saddam and stopped the terrible things that was doing! However forcing them to become a Democracy just promotes this image of the US as even bigger elitists if that's possible. There are other governments! And I love Democracy as much as the next guy, but we can't say it's the only one that works, because it's not.

The people in Iraq hate us for coming in and reforming their government.

If the people in Darfur ASK for our help, we should give it. But it's not really our business if they don't feel that they want it or need it. (Now, how they would ASK for our help, I have no idea...) But it's not America's job to save the world.

Nerdy, that is the most ill informed comment I've ever heard from you. Do you have selective amnesia when it comes to the icredible number of people who went to vote on election day in Iraq, and the smiling citizens proudly showing their purple thumbs to the camara? No government is immediately super-effective, including that of the USA in it's youth. I don't think the Government here was very good until the original Constitution (The Letters of Confederation) was replaced with the Constitution we have today, which took a couple decades.

I realize that other governmental systems have worked aside from Democracy. The biblical government of Israel set by God Himself was that of kings, bloodlines, and no ballot boxes. The point of giving Iraq Democracy is that they are able to choose another government after things have settled if they so choose. We're just working with them in this tough start for a country surrounded by terrorists.

Oh, and we never threatened to kill Iraqis to accept Democracy with anything, much less death. You guys need to stop making comments that are out of touch with reality and make you look extreme.