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 The Englands & The Moorish Science Temple of America, Split from "Your Thoughts..." thread
Craig Ranke CIT
Posted: Jun 6 2010, 08:55 PM


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QUOTE (Winkhorst @ Jun 7 2010, 12:35 AM)


On another tangent, I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere, but can anyone tell me how it is that the whole lightpole through the window incident could possibly have happened on a crowded highway, with the cab spinning around, without a major collision event and traffic jam? Does this not just shout "staged event"? And certainly, if it really happened in the real world, there should be multiple witnesses to it, which, I gather, there are not.

It's true that there are no witnesses who report seeing a light pole spear the cab and the cab spin out on the road with a 35 ft light pole still in it.

It's also true that the witnesses prove the plane was nowhere near the light pole.
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Ligon
Posted: Jun 6 2010, 08:59 PM


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Nor did anyone see Lloyde and the alleged silent stranger (who he originally said was his "friend") removing the pole as Lloyde claims.

Nor are there any pictures of the pole in Lloyde's cab or being removed from Lloyde's cab even though there were pictures taken shortly after the explosion.
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Winkhorst
Posted: Jun 7 2010, 04:05 PM


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Ligon said:
QUOTE
Nor did anyone see Lloyde and the alleged silent stranger (who he originally said was his "friend") removing the pole as Lloyde claims.

Nor are there any pictures of the pole in Lloyde's cab or being removed from Lloyde's cab even though there were pictures taken shortly after the explosion.


Lloyde originally said the other guy was his friend? Was he suggesting the other guy was in his cab at the time? Or was he saying his friend just happened to be there? That would be almost as coincidental as Lloyde's cab getting stuck with the light pole in the first place.

I guess what annoys me the most is, it's so blatant. And yet the official media acts like it's perfectly reasonable. It never occurs to them to even question the rationality of it. And yes, Craig, I realize the witnesses don't place the plane anywhere near where it could have done what it's supposed to have done. It's enough to make me grind my teeth.
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Ligon
Posted: Jun 10 2010, 08:32 AM


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QUOTE (Winkhorst @ Jun 7 2010, 04:05 PM)
QUOTE (Ligon)
Nor did anyone see Lloyde and the alleged silent stranger (who he originally said was his "friend") removing the pole as Lloyde claims.

Nor are there any pictures of the pole in Lloyde's cab or being removed from Lloyde's cab even though there were pictures taken shortly after the explosion.


Lloyde originally said the other guy was his friend? Was he suggesting the other guy was in his cab at the time? Or was he saying his friend just happened to be there? That would be almost as coincidental as Lloyde's cab getting stuck with the light pole in the first place.

I created a new thread to answer your questions in detail:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=1277
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Winkhorst
Posted: Jun 10 2010, 04:57 PM


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Thanks.

I'll reply to you there.
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Craig Ranke CIT
Posted: Jun 13 2010, 07:27 AM


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QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Jun 13 2010, 12:12 PM)
I noticed [in this thread thread] that

QUOTE
after 40 years he is widowed


Sorry if this has been covered (I must read this thread through), but was the lady in the video his second wife?

Yes.

He didn't marry her until after 9/11. He expressed to me that he misses his late wife and basically said that he married Shirley because she didn't drink or smoke so he had no reason not to!
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onesliceshort
Posted: Jun 13 2010, 07:55 AM


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QUOTE (Craig Ranke CIT @ Jun 13 2010, 07:27 AM)
QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Jun 13 2010, 12:12 PM)

Sorry if this has been covered (I must read this thread through), but was the lady in the video his second wife?

Yes.

He didn't marry her until after 9/11. He expressed to me that he misses his late wife and basically said that he married Shirley because she didn't drink or smoke so he had no reason not to!

biggrin.gif

Good Moorish reasoning there (knowing a few from the area I'm living in)
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onesliceshort
Posted: Jun 13 2010, 08:14 AM


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QUOTE
During her extensive research in the archives she discovered documents which convinced her that America was discovered a long time before Columbus by Arab-andalusian or Moroccan sailors trading with ports in Brazil, Guayana and Venezuela and she published her views in No fuimos nosotros (It wasn't us) und África versus América.




I actually met this woman. Her story is crazy man.
A member of the Spanish Royal family who was a lesbian (married and left all her money and land to her wife) and a socialist!
She had a crazy amount of controversial documents dating back to the time when Spain was owned by the Moors.
She claimed to have documents that made the whole history of Spain a falsehood and that the Royal family of Spain is directly descended from Moor blood.
The Spanish Inquisition was used to eliminate all traces of this ancestry or anybody who new of the links.
Thing is, the present King, Juan Carlos is said to be the honorary head of the Knights of Malta (if my memory serves me correct - I'm rusty on the Masons)
He is a regular feature of the Bilderberg group.
The Moors have had an extensive influence/bloodline on the present day royal families of Europe and I guess that would extend to the US as well.
Sorry for dumping all of this unsourced info. Just going by memory.
The Moor connection isn't as trivial as first appears.
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Winkhorst
Posted: Jun 13 2010, 08:20 AM


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QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Jun 13 2010, 07:55 AM)
QUOTE (Craig Ranke CIT @ Jun 13 2010, 07:27 AM)
QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Jun 13 2010, 12:12 PM)

Sorry if this has been covered (I must read this thread through), but was the lady in the video his second wife?

Yes.

He didn't marry her until after 9/11. He expressed to me that he misses his late wife and basically said that he married Shirley because she didn't drink or smoke so he had no reason not to!

biggrin.gif

Good Moorish reasoning there (knowing a few from the area I'm living in)

Indeed. From what I have read (I'm no expert), there is a major emphasis on being a good citizen, an emphasis that has existed from the beginning.

Then again, Lloyde may have been exhibiting a rather dry sense of humor. It seems to me some folks don't give him due credit for being an intelligent human being capable of crafting his responses to the situation.
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Winkhorst
Posted: Jun 13 2010, 08:54 AM


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QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Jun 13 2010, 08:14 AM)
On the subject of Moors..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luisa_Isabel_..._Medina_Sidonia

QUOTE
During her extensive research in the archives she discovered documents which convinced her that America was discovered a long time before Columbus by Arab-andalusian or Moroccan sailors trading with ports in Brazil, Guayana and Venezuela and she published her views in No fuimos nosotros (It wasn't us) und África versus América.




I actually met this woman. Her story is crazy man.
A member of the Spanish Royal family who was a lesbian (married and left all her money and land to her wife) and a socialist!
She had a crazy amount of controversial documents dating back to the time when Spain was owned by the Moors.
She claimed to have documents that made the whole history of Spain a falsehood and that the Royal family of Spain is directly descended from Moor blood.
The Spanish Inquisition was used to eliminate all traces of this ancestry or anybody who new of the links.
Thing is, the present King, Juan Carlos is said to be the honorary head of the Knights of Malta (if my memory serves me correct - I'm rusty on the Masons)
He is a regular feature of the Bilderberg group.
The Moors have had an extensive influence/bloodline on the present day royal families of Europe and I guess that would extend to the US as well.
Sorry for dumping all of this unsourced info. Just going by memory.
The Moor connection isn't as trivial as first appears.

I, for one, do not take the Moorish connection to be trivial.

And yes, the Inquisition was a turning point in world history, or rather the telling of world history. My own family goes back to pre-inquisition Spain and Portugal, from which they fled to Eastern Europe. Much that was known during Moorish rule was obliterated from the record after they were driven out.

As for Moors in America, I have no trouble taking that seriously either. There is actually fairly strong evidence that America was known and mined from at least the time of Sargon the Great (24rd Century BC) and perhaps as early as the beginning of the Bronze Age. By some estimates, half a BILLION pounds of copper were taken out of northern Michigan from circa 3000 to circa 1200 BC, before iron became the metal of choice sometime around the time of the Trojan War.

That being said, some of the doctrines of the Moorish Science Temple are clearly wishful thinking. And whether the actions of Lloyde England on 9/11 had anything to do with his affiliation with the MST remains an open question. It should also be kept in mind that there are splinter groups of the MST that also use the -el and -bey suffixes to their names. In particular, the so-called 5-Percenters, whose perspective is not all that different from that of David Icke, that is, most people are sheep being led around by the nose. I would not expect a member of the MST to be reading Icke, whether Lloyde claimed not to know what Icke was about or not. I would, however, expect someone involved with the splinter groups to be interested in Icke.
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Winkhorst
Posted: Mar 6 2011, 05:17 PM


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Craig,

Just reading your attempt at a discussion of Lloyde's taxi at the Randi forum. Those guys are jackals with no interest in anything but demonstrating their own ignorance and stupidity. Apparently being a "skeptic" entails not believing anything that isn't sanctioned by the U.S. government.
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22205
Posted: Dec 26 2011, 10:46 AM


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during some recent research, i ran into another moorish temple member, and wanted to add it here-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_Rodney_Hampton-El
QUOTE
Clement Rodney Hampton-El, also known as Dr. Rashid, had been a member of the Moorish Science Temple of America was convicted in the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993.
QUOTE

Frankenstein the CIA created

Mujahideen trained and funded by the US are among its deadliest foes, reports Jason Burke in Peshawar

guardian.co.uk, Sunday 17 January 1999

When Clement Rodney Hampton-el, a hospital technician from Brooklyn, New Jersey, returned home from the war in Afghanistan in 1989, he told friends his only desire was to return. Though he had been wounded in the arm and leg by a Russian shell, he said he had failed. He had not achieved martyrdom in the name of Islam.

So he found a different theatre for his holy war and achieved a different sort of martyrdom. Three years ago, he was convicted of planning a series of massive explosions in Manhattan and sentenced to 35 years in prison.

Hampton-el was described by prosecutors as a skilled bomb-maker. It was hardly surprising. In Afghanistan he fought with the Hezb-i-Islami group of mujahideen, whose training and weaponry were mainly supplied by the CIA.

He was not alone. American officials estimate that, from 1985 to 1992, 12,500 foreigners were trained in bomb-making, sabotage and urban guerrilla warfare in Afghan camps the CIA helped to set up.

Since the fall of the Soviet puppet government in 1992, another 2,500 are believed to have passed through the camps. They are now run by an assortment of Islamic extremists, including Osama bin Laden, the world's most wanted terrorist.

Bin Laden arrived in Afghanistan from Saudi Arabia in 1979, aged 22. Though he saw a considerable amount of combat - around the eastern city of Jalalabad in March 1989 and, earlier, around the border town of Khost - his speciality was logistics.

From his base in the Pakistani city of Peshawar, he used his experience of the construction trade, and his money, to build a series of bases where the mujahideen could be trained by their Pakistani, American and, if some recent press reports are to be believed, British advisers.

One of the camps bin Laden built, known as Al-Badr, was the target of the American missile strikes against him last summer. Now it is used by Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, a Pakistan-based organisation that trains volunteers to fight in Kashmir.

Some of their recruits kidnapped and almost certainly killed a group of Western hostages a few years ago. The bases are still full of new volunteers, many
Pakistanis. Most of those who were killed in last August's strikes were Pakistani.

A Harkut-ul-Mujahideen official said last week that it had Germans and Britons fighting for the cause, as well as Egyptians, Palestinians and Saudis. Muslims from the West as well as from the Middle East and North Africa are regularly stopped by Pakistani police on the road up the Khyber Pass heading for the camps. Hundreds get through. Afghan veterans have now joined bin Laden's al-Qaeda group.

Some have returned to former battlegrounds, like the university-educated Dr Ayman al-Zawahiri, a key figure in the Egyptian al-Jihad terrorist group. Al-Zawahiri ran his own operation during the Afghan war, bringing in and training volunteers from the Middle East. Some of the $500 million the CIA poured into Afghanistan reached his group. Al-Zawahiri has become a close aide of bin Laden and has now returned to Afghanistan to work with him. His al-Jihad group has been linked to the Yemeni kidnappers.

One Saudi journalist who interviewed bin Laden in 1989 remembers three of his close associates going under the names of Abu Mohammed, Abu Hafz and Abu Ahmed. All three fought with bin Laden in the early Eighties, travelled with him to the Sudan and have come back to Afghanistan. Afghan veterans, believed to include men who fought the Americans in Somalia, have also returned.

Other members of al-Quaeda remain overseas. Afghan veterans now linked to bin Laden have been traced by investigators to Pakistan, East Africa, Albania, Chechnya, Algeria, France, the US and Britain.

At least one of the kidnappers in Yemen was reported to have fought in Afghanistan and to be linked to al-Quaeda. Despite reports that bin Laden was effectively funded by the Americans, it is impossible to gauge how much American aid he received. He was not a major figure in the Afghan war. Most American weapons, including Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, were channelled by the Pakistanis to the Hezb-i-Islami faction of the mujahideen led by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar.

Bin Laden was only loosely connected with the group, serving under another Hezb-i-Islami commander known as Engineer Machmud. However, bin Laden's Office of Services, set up to recruit overseas for the war, received some US cash.
But according to one American official, concentrating on bin Laden is a mistake. 'The point is not the individuals,' he said last week. 'The point is that we created a whole cadre of trained and motivated people who turned against us. It's a classic Frankenstein's monster situation.'

Others point out that the military contribution of the 'Arabs', as the overseas volunteers were known, was relatively small. 'The fighting was done by the Afghans and most of them went back to their fields when Kabul fell to the mujahideen,' said Kamaal Khan, a Pakistani defence analyst. 'Ironically, the bulk of American aid went to the least effective fighters, who turned most strongly to bite the hand that fed them.'
QUOTE
But other anti-terrorist specialists noted the absence of a previous arrest record for Mr. Hampton-El, and added that his alleged involvement in the bomb plot had little of the secrecy and relative efficiency attributed to suspected Fuqra militants. "There are bits and pieces you have to wonder about," said Brian Jenkins, an anti-terrorism specialist with Kroll Associates. "But this field lends itself to leaping to vast conspiracies and it's best to be a little bit careful until ties are developed."

Few of Mr. Hampton-El's friends and neighbors said they knew of Fuqra, and those who did said it was known mainly for the sort of civic works -- policing and cleaning the streets, protecting project corridors and courtyards --- that Mr. Hampton-El made his calling in rallying residents and practicing Ninja martial arts. "There's a certain hysteria being created," complained Jitu Weusi, an official of the United Black Front in Brooklyn, who said Fuqra exists but its deeds have been misunderstood and exaggerated.

Mr. Hampton-El, who is also known as Abdul Rashid Abdullah, is a Sunni Muslim whose family were pioneers in the 20th century's Black Muslim movement as members of the Moorish Science Temple, said Mr. Dannin. Afghan Leader Assailed West.

Mr. Hampton-El's route to the Afghan war was as a member of the Hezb-I-Islami guerrilla group. It was led by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, a sharp critic of the West who nevertheless received much of the money and arms channeled to the war by United States intelligence sources to feed the forces opposed to the Soviet Union there. This group was chosen by scores of Islamic volunteers from the metropolitan region, and one line of investigation is whether Mr. Hampton-El might have met some of the other suspects through combat overseas and become interested in a new jihad directed against secular governments like the United States.
QUOTE
Clement Rodney Hampton-El

Raised in impoverished circumstances, Hampton-El had been a member of the Moorish Science Temple—a predominantly African-American religious sect—before converting to orthodox Sunni Islam and adopting the name Abdul Rashid Abdullah. Hampton-El was also reportedly a member of Jama`at al-Fuqara’[12], an extremist sect whose U.S. branch was founded in 1980 by Mubarak Ali Shah Gilani, a Pakistani Sufi cleric and supporter of Islamist militancy in Indian-occupied Kashmir. By the late 1980s, Jama`at al-Fuqara’ (also known later as Muslims of the Americas) was allegedly acquiring weapons and recruiting fighters for Afghanistan.[13]

Hampton-El joined the Afghan jihad, reportedly serving as a medic with Gulbuddin Hekmatyar’s Hizb-i-Islami mujahidin force.[14] Wounded by a Russian shell, he returned to New York in late 1988 to recuperate. For Hampton-El, also known as “Dr. Rashid” for his work with the mujahidin and his later employment as a hospital technician, Afghanistan was a transformative experience. “The war was a life-force experience that he dearly wanted to return to…so he could have another chance at martyrdom and paradise,” according to one press account.[15]
He never returned to Afghanistan. Instead, he became a significant figure at the al-Kifah Refugee Center in New York, a branch of al-Qa`ida’s international fundraising and support network. During the early 1990s, “Dr. Rashid” trained prospective jihadists and smuggled funds into the United States as part of “Project Bosnia,”[16] an effort to recruit, support and prepare militants for Bosnia. A member of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing conspiracy, Hampton-El was convicted in 1996 with the “blind shaykh,” `Umar `Abd al-Rahman, and others in connection with the “Day of Terror” plot against New York City landmarks.
QUOTE
Clement Rodney Hampton - Dr. Rashid.

Clement Rodney Hampton is an American born in 1938 to Christian parents members of the Moorish Science Temple. He joined USA army in 1957.

After his release from the army Clement Rodney Hampton found a job in New Jersey hospital as a technician and worked there, with breaks, nearly 30 years. In 1967 Clement Rodney Hampton converted to Islam. In 1988 he went to fight in Afghanistan, through “Al Kifah” arrangements in Al Farook Mosque in Brooklyn. He served in Afghanistan as battlefield medic and got therefore the nick name Dr. Rashid. Clement Rodney Hampton was wounded there.

In 07/1989 Clement Rodney Hampton was filmed by FBI agents shooting weapons at the Calverton Shooting Range, on Long Island, New York. The group that included Mahmud Abuhalima, El Sayyid Nosair , Nidal Ayyad and Mohammed Salameh was secretly monitored as they shot AK-47 assault rifles and semiautomatic handguns.

There is also evidence that Clement Rodney Hampton associated with the radical Islamic group - “Jamaat al-fukra” in Tucson, Texas. When the blind Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman became the Imam of Al Farook Mosque in 1991 Clement Rodney Hampton was one of his close assistants.

In the early 90ies Clement Rodney Hampton developed business relations with Saudi Arabia and had constant relations with the Saudi embassy in Washington. There is also some evidence that he served as an informant for the Saudis.
Clement Rodney Hampton traveled also several times to Europe and the Philippines in purpose to transfer money from wealthy Saudi donors to Bosnia and for different Muslim activities in USA. In one of his trips to the Philippines in 05/1993 he got acquainted with one of Al Qaeda financiers at that time - Mohammed Jamal Khalifa.

After the attack on WTC on 02/26/1993 the Al Farook Mosque was put under surveillance. On 06/24/1993 FBI foiled a mega “ Day of Terror ” plot by arresting 5 members of Al Farook Mosque cell in a warehouse in New Jersey while mixing fertilizer and fuel oil for their bombs. Investigation revealed that Clement Rodney Hampton was the buyer and supplier of the necessary materials and he was arrested the next day with the blind Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman.

On 10/1995 Clement Rodney Hampton was convicted for his part in the “ Day of Terror ” plot and sentenced to 35 years in jail. Clement Rodney Hampton is today (02/2007) in Supermax prison in Florence, Colorado.
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Winkhorst
Posted: Nov 12 2012, 12:46 PM


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The case of Clement Rodney Hampton is interesting in that it expresses a certain dissonance with the original reason for establishing the Moorish Science Temple. The Temple was established, as far as I can tell, in order to create a kind of national identity myth for African-Americans in which their presence in America did not result from slavery, but from a much nobler history of exploration and conquest. In this regard, the Moslem aspect of the religion is quite superficial, their "Moorish" nationality being of much more importance.

I should also reiterate that there are splinter groups of the original organization. Do we know for a fact that Hampton belonged to the "mother church," so to speak, and not to a splinter group? Again, one of Drew's original main tenets was good citizenship. I can much more easily see Lloyde England expressing this kind of good citizenship, no matter how twisted, working with the military on 9/11 than Clement Hampton expressing its opposite by trying to blow up the World Trade Center.
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