The First Known Accomplice?, Interview with Lloyd England.

Our interview with Lloyd the cab driver has now been revealed in this 20 minute presentation. Get ALL of the dubious details that were edited out of LCFC.

This information is meant to be viewed after watching the testimony from the witnesses at the citgo station in The PentaCon (Smoking Gun Version).

CIT presents:

"The First Known Accomplice?"

The Lloyd England thing is really strange. His wife works for the FBI??...presumably making decent money...yet I googled him and found that he was making hardship claims with various victim funds, complaining of having no money coming in. Has anyone else noticed that? How could the pole fall onto the car without damaging the hood, roof, or windshield frame, but how could it be fabricated right out in the open with so many potential witnesses around? Any ideas?

Oops...I forgot to bring this up...has anyone learned anything about his background is he ex military or gov employee?

Great questions!

Him and his wife told us she is a "retired clerk" of the FBI so based on that alone there is no reason to assume they are rolling in dough from that. But this doesn't change the fact that there is a direct connection to an agency that had to have been involved in this operation.

Clearly his story with the pole and the undamaged hood is physically impossible.





The staging of his scene would be a lot easier then it seems.

They could have easily placed the cab immediately after the explosion after they had blocked off traffic. This image shows you how much control they had of the scene:




The northbound traffic on the other side of the road wouldn't see anything because the HOV lane and double guardrail blocking their view.


The pole could have been dropped or pulled from the shoulder where it was already waiting.

Damage to the cab could have been pre-fabricated and it could have been towed or even driven up on the bridge like that.

It would only take about 30 seconds to stage and nobody would be paying attention to what the feds were doing over there minutes after the event while the Pentagon burned.

If anyone caught a glimpse of them staging the scene it would look the same as them securing the scene.

No matter how you look at it the plane was not anywhere near that pole which proves why Lloyd's story is so impossible.

He said he has been driving a cab since 1959.

We didn't ask him if he ever served.

But he was wearing a belt buckle that said "Blue Knights".

We asked him about it and he said it is a motorcycle fraternity for law enforcement and that he is an "honorary member".

He was actually quite proud of it and even showed us a business card he had for it.

Hey thanks for the detailed answers to the questions I posted last night. You're doing an awesome job with your research and investigation.

Very interesting! England may have been with law enforcement then...I'm just speculating, but lots of cops are ex-military..and military guys England's age were most likely serving in the late 50's early 60's when intelligence ops were often roping in disadvantaged young guys for their programs. I know speculation has limited value, but England's background is definitely something to do hard research on. It could shed some light on how accomplices were selected and used.

I believed the government's version of events about 911 for a long time until I worked in military aviation (briefly)...and began to learn that so many pieces of the puzzle just don't fit together when you approach it from the standpoint of the "official" story.

I absolutely agree.

We have speculated that he could have been a working CIA asset for years carting around political officials in his cab with a bug etc.

Certainly we hope to inspire others to take on additional lines of inquiry like you are talking about.

Now that we have launched this forum we hope it will attract people who are willing to pursue information like this and use this place as a means to expose and discuss what can be found.

In essence....by becoming a member of this forum you have joined the team as a citizen investigator!

It's amazing how much information you can find out with some hands on effort.

You guys have done some detailed investigative research. I just saw Loose Change Final Cut and was really kind of disappointed. Granted, there was a lot of good broad scope information in it, but I was hoping that it would look into the specious details of the government account. It seems that they left alot of valuable stuff out...and I couldn't believe they took Lloyd England at face value. Why are the loose change people shying away from the Lloyd England problem? Maybe someday you all can put together an investigative documentary?

It's all rather unfortunate but I'll spell it out for you right here for the record because it needs to be known:

Because of the fact that the movement had shied away from the Pentagon attack and some loudmouth skeptics were pushing the notion that a 757 hit the building Dylan had already made a commitment to be "agnostic" on the Pentagon during Final Cut to try and please everyone. Plus Dylan swallowed the proven bunk A-3 Sky Warrior engine piece crap from Karl Schwarz in 2nd edition (despite the fact that we warned him in advance to take it out) so he made a point to forget about "what" hit the Pentagon and focus on "why" it was hit instead.

When Dylan heard about our initial plans to go to Arlington he asked if we would meet him and Russell Pickering there to act as research consultants for FC. Russell believes in a 757 impact and was the creator of the now defunct pentagonresearch.com so I guess Dylan was trying to get a balanced view.

I booked the Stephen McGraw interview and Russell booked the Lloyd interview.

We had been debating with Russell for weeks before about the impossibility of Lloyd's account (see a good discussion between Russell and Merc/Aldo back in 2006 before our trip here .)

Russell agreed Lloyd's story is impossible if his story is that the long part of the pole is what allegedly speared his windshield as opposed to the much smaller part of the lamp arm you can see here out in front of it:


So the moment of truth came when Lloyd told all of us together what you see on video tape.

The experience freaked us all out and even caused Russell to emotionally spin out in uncertainty like he expresses to Dylan in this 2 minute video tape shortly after the Lloyd interview:

Russell Pickering Expresses Frustration


At this point we didn't even know about the north side evidence.

Turns out Russell found out about the citgo employee witness (Robert Turcios) before we did but withheld that information until we all actually showed up at the CITGO station on our last day and were about to talk with the manager (who told Russell about Robert) ourselves.

As soon as we got home all of Russell's doubts mysteriously vanished but he refused to discuss Lloyd except to suggest that he would write off Lloyd's critical account as nothing but the confused rantings of an old man.

Shortly after; Aldo/Merc confirmed Robert Turcios' account over the phone and that's when things started getting real bad.

Russell went on a relentless campaign to attack us personally while ignoring any further 9/11 research and refusing to ever update his site.

This continued non-stop even after I went back to Arlington and unanimously confirmed the north side claim on video with all known witnesses who were at the station.

Because Dylan had already committed to being agnostic on the Pentagon he chose to edit out all of the dubious details in Lloyd's account and even go so far as to misrepresent his claims with a fictitious and deceptive animation as we discuss in
this thread. Apparently he accepted Russell's explanation that Lloyd is merely a confused old man and that scrutiny of his account is unnecessary.

Clearly Dylan also chose to edit out all of the dubious details in Stephen McGraw's account as well.

Plus the fact that he completely omitted the north side evidence is beyond a travesty.

After all of that Russell has now formally quit all 9/11 research and just sent me some emails on Christmas morning (read here) informing me of this.

He admitted that the reason is because his main goal was to keep my "sick" mind out of Loose Change Final Cut and now that he has achieved his goal he is satisfied giving up all pursuits for 9/11 truth.

Weird huh?

Oh and by the way.....

Dylan banned me from his forums just before the Final Cut premier this year and he even told me it's because of my position on Lloyd and McGraw.

So in answer to your question I highly doubt there is a possibility of us collaborating in the future.

In fact as far as I know Dylan has no plans to put out any more 9/11 films at all.

POST REMOVED. Sent a PM instead.

Happy new year!

Oh. Your explanation clears things up a bit. It is really sad Dylan was lead astray like that. I think it would have been great if he had continued on with the same spirit as the first Loose Change documentary. I guess it would be his prerogative to be agnostic about the Pentagon (although I don't see how or why anyone would be considering the evidence), but he could have maintained that stance without presenting misleading/deceptive testimony...and that makes me question the accuracy and validity of EVERYTHING him and the other Loose Change people have shown us. I feel like I have to go back and scrutinize everything now.

As far as Prickering, I've looked at some of his stuff online and he seems to be one wishy-washy conflicted individual. I mean it's fine to question and explore various possibilities.....but no 757 went into the Pentagon, that much is obvious.

You know, maybe I'm a lil bit over-suspicious of people sometimes, but I feel that there may be shills and disinformation agents working within the 911 truth movement with the intention of discrediting, misleading, lowering morale, and generally disrupting. It has been done before with COINTELPRO infiltrating the Black Panthers, American Indian Movement, and others with counter operatives....just something to keep in mind when you experience people like Prickering that may be either misguided or something more sinister.

I guess I should have made myself more clear. It would be awesome if you and your Citizen Investigation Team could put together a comprehensive investigative documentary.

Oh yeah..Happy New Year!!!!!

Thanks happy New Year to you too!


Of course it would be silly to suggest that there weren't any cointel professionals involved with this operation.

Just like it would be silly to suggest there weren't any planted witnesses and agents involved with the operation.

A few questions and comments.
Lloyd England sees the plane above his car. Is it possible this sighting, on top of him, was the decoy plane, flying north of Citgo?
England is driving south, could see the low flying Citgo fly over his car, driving at 45 mph, puts the car above him, then is hit by something, and comes to a stop. Then be told to say it was the light pole that did the damage. Could it be that the VDOT pole is the only one hit?
Could it be the white plane flying low over I-395 on the "light pole path?"
Could it be the wing tip of the white plane, not as large as a 757, flying fast at 540 mph, appearing out of nowhere, mostly unheard by witnesses, clip the VDOT pole, and this piece hits England's car, as he is looking at the north of Citgo plane?
At 4:36 in the FKA? video, is that light pole 2 standing in the background?
Is this the same placement of the cab as it is in later pictures? Why move it into the road, place the light pole pieces in a line in front of the cab, totally blocking the road?
How does a light pole in the window not damage the hood but somehow prevent the car from being started?
And also, look into the live news timeline of witness reports. Alan Wallace, Omar Campos, Don Chauncey, white plane. Chauncey and Campos think it was a smaller sized plane, not as big as a huge 757. A big plane, not tiny, not huge. Don Wright isn't sure where it comes from, it seems to suddenly appear, then fly over I-395, then is seen by witnesses, a 2 engine smaller commercial sized jet. Michael Kelly says it sounds like a small plane. Steven Gerard says small, commercial sized jet.
None of them see it hit the lawn, light poles, or wings fold back, or any untrue details. Then a few AA 757 witnesses come out. Positive in the AA detail, the give crash details, hit the heliport, hit the ground first, that don't match the physical evidence.

Hi Hayden and welcome to the forum!

I see you have a lot questions about Lloyd's account.

I'll do my best to answer them all.

It's only hypothetically possible if Lloyd is a genuine witness.

The evidence shows that he can not be.

If he was told to lie about what hit his car and fabricate the story of removing the pole after he stops with help from a silent stranger then he is still shown to be complicit in the operation.

Not only does that not make sense that would mean the other 4 poles were planted so that still proves a deception.

Not sure what you mean "over I-395" since that is not the light pole path or the north of the citgo path.

But watch this presentation to find out how the genuine witnesses we found report that the white plane was flying treetop level over the neighborhoods of Arlington and not 395.

No because the plane was on the north side of the citgo and could not have hit any of the poles but particularly 1, 2, or 3.

Plus the lack of damage to Lloyd's car proves that his story is not true about the removing the pole after he stops and falling down on the ground next to his car with the pole.

Not to mention the physical damage does not match that of a plane impact and there is no debris from this mysterious white plane on the south path that nobody saw that you are suggesting could have hit.

No. It's a different pole. Foreshortening in the image makes it look closer than it is.

Yes. Foreshortening again.

They blocked traffic and "secured" *cough*staged*cough* the scene.

The story is simply that....a story.

The north of the citgo plane was white and was a large passenger jet as virtually every independent previously unpublished witness we could find reported.

None of the above witnesses definitively confirm the south path over the north path so they could all be referring to the north side plane.