C130 Arrived On Scene Nearly 3 Minutes After Event, Definitely not the plane Roosevelt saw

According to Anthony Tribby, his video was shot 1 minute after the alleged "impact" of the attack jet. On his video he actually captures the C-130 doing its approach (@ 1:48 according to Tribby) and turn @ 1:55 in the video that means the C-130 was there about 3 minutes after.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV4jaijNqyo&feature=related

Close-up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXj066J4JUQ&feature=related

Pentagon officer Roosevelt Roberts Jr was at the loading docks and experienced the explosion (which he thought was the impact) inside. He details lights flickering and pieces of ceiling falling. He then takes about "7 steps" out to the edge of the east end of the loading dock in South Parking lot and sees a "silver commercial aircraft liner w/jet engines (not propellors)" traveling from the 27 side or from "where the 'first plane' hit" traveling east towards DC. He said it was very low, he estimated 50 ft to less than 100 ft over the South Parking lot area, he said it was banking and coming around to the mall entrance side. Most importantly he described it like a 'pilot who missed the landing zone target and was coming back around'. Roosevelt saw the flyover plane.

Download our independently confirmed interview with him here:

http://www.thepentacon.com/roberts

As you can tell from the tribby video. This is NOT what Roosevelt is describing.

Remember Wheelhouse's shadowing claim, this footage and the ANC worker's description of the C-130's flight path (confirming what the C-130 pilot told us) now gives Kieth a whole new set of problems...



And Sucherman's plane there 3-5 seconds after the event after we pressed him to be more specific...



Bringing a "second" plane close to the scene and being ambiguous about it is the name of the game.

Amazing find, Aldo. How did this go undiscovered on YouTube for almost a month? Well, this provides a huge set of problems for the debunkers now.

The C-130 appears to have flown over the Pentagon at about 800-1000ft. The video time-frame indicates that it passed over the Pentagon more than 1'38" after he started recording. Judging by the height and color of the smoke, 1 min. appears to be a reasonable estimate for the start of the recording. That puts it at about 2'38" after impact. No matter how you slice it, Wheelhouse and Sucherman are lying and this proves it.

Is there a time-frame attached to the 84 RADES data? If so, does this video also invalidate the 84 RADES data?

Indeed it does. But nothing stops them, not even truth and logic. It hasn't been undiscovered, it was available on Anthony Tribby's website, i think tribby.net or something like that. But it had no real time code other than the player, we probably could have judged from that, but weren't sure it was even the C-130 due to the quality and Scott Cook's account of it heading to the Tidal Basin, which it did not do. So Scott is either lying or simply mistaken. Now we know it is the C-130 and seems to jive with the ANC workers bank away before the Pentagon thanks to the higher quality and close-up Tribby did on Youtube.

Yes and this truly illustrates how Roosevelt saw the flyover jet AFTER the explosion. It implicates several other people by the way as well. But Wheelhouse and Sucherman are cooked. Sucherman will write it off to memory. Remember, with Sucherman he simply ambiguously mentioned the second plane more than likely to throw off any flyover witnesses or investigators. Keep in mind, he was expecting Craig to more than likely drop it after he mentioned it, but Craig pressed on knowing what he was doing. That is why when pressed for details, Sucherman was pulling stuff of his youknowhat, but as we expected and like his other accounts, he refused to identify it and slowly but surely he reverts into it the C-130, without ID'ing the C-130.

Yes there, is. And there is an image floating around somewhere, let me find it. In fact, perhaps Riv or Ashoka have the RADES excel file for the C-130 with the lat/longs and the times. Either way, yes it does contradict it, because the RADES data has it about 1 minute behind on that other flight path. We can't tell which way it approaches from (at least I can't) so that seems inconclusive for backing up the ANC guys and disproving the RADES approach.

EDIT: Found it...

If you listen to the interview, that's actually not the direction Roosevelt said it was heading. He clearly states twice that the plane was heading in a West/Southwest direction -- "back across 27." Highway 27 is west (not east) of the Pentagon.

ETA: I just changed the phrasing a little.

If you listen to the interview, that's actually not what Roosevelt said. He clearly states twice that the plane was heading in a West/Southwest direction -- "back across 27." Highway 27 is west (not east) of the Pentagon.

Right, and did you hear in the beginning when he said it came from the Rt 27 side, traveling east towards DC? It was the first thing he said, Detective Puh.

Oh yes, I heard that's what he first said in response to your question ("Do you remember which direction it was headed?). Here's what he said (or close to it):

We're thinking it sounds more like he didn't exactly understand the question that first time and is describing how someone on 395 can get to the area where he saw the plane (Lane 1 area). That's why he says, "If you were to come up 395. . ."

After all, when you asked him again right after that,

. . .his response is quite different:

And when he repeatedly confirms this, it looks more like he merely misunderstood what the question was the first time you asked him.

Right, it wrapped around out toward the Mall entrance side, as it was heading away, that's what he was trying to describe.

Is there a point to all this Stink?

Stinkey-
Roosevelt Roberts saw a plane flying just above the Pentagon, coming FROM where the explosion happened, headed East and he saw it immediately afterward (within seconds). There were no other planes in that area at the time, so you would have to conclude that that was the flyover plane. Even according to government radar sources, the next plane to arrive above the Pentagon was the C-130, which we now know arrived about 2'38" after the explosion.

If you are implying that Roosevelt saw the C-130, there are three points that fatally refute that conclusion:

1.) Time Frame: Roberts says under 10 seconds, the C-130 arrived about 3 min later.
2.) Altitude: Roberts says the plane flew just over the Pentagon (70 ft, I believe)
3.) Description: Roberts clearly identifies this plane as a commercial jet, not a military propeller-driven cargo plane.

Actually it was over South Parking when he saw it. I think he is deducing where it came from.

Could it be that he HEARD the plane over the South parking lot, and actually SAW it over the Potomac?
If he heard an explosion, then ran 7 steps maximum (according to him), it must have taken about 2 seconds or less. Think about running 7 steps or less... You don't run at 60 steps per minute, in fact you don't even walk that slow. It would be more like 260BMP, which would take just a second or two. At that point, he may have seen the plane over the Potomac, heading South. He may have deduced that it was over the South Parking lot because he would be hearing the sound of the plane over the South Parking lot at about that time.

I'm just throwing that out there because we already know how many witnesses have deduced actually SEEING the plane impact the building, which they could not have seen. Since Roberts makes a couple contradictory statements, my hypothetical attempts to reconstruct what actually happened, and what was deduced.

Any way you slice it though, the plane had to be the flyover plane, for the reasons I outlined above. Do you agree?

**Edit**
I just timed myself running 7 steps, and it takes me about 1.5 seconds. So it seems to me that a more accurate estimate would be closer to 1.5, not 10 seconds.

nice find Aldo...

just did some quick screen caps...

Could it be that he HEARD the plane over the South parking lot, and actually SAW it over the Potomac?
If he heard an explosion, then ran 7 steps maximum (according to him), it must have taken about 2 seconds or less. Think about running 7 steps or less... You don't run at 60 steps per minute, in fact you don't even walk that slow. It would be more like 260BMP, which would take just a second or two. At that point, he may have seen the plane over the Potomac, heading South. He may have deduced that it was over the South Parking lot because he would be hearing the sound of the plane over the South Parking lot at about that time.

I'm just throwing that out there because we already know how many witnesses have deduced actually SEEING the plane impact the building, which they could not have seen. Since Roberts makes a couple contradictory statements, my hypothetical attempts to reconstruct what actually happened, and what was deduced.

Any way you slice it though, the plane had to be the flyover plane, for the reasons I outlined above. Do you agree?

**Edit**
I just timed myself running 7 steps, and it takes me about 1.5 seconds. So it seems to me that a more accurate estimate would be closer to 1.5, not 10 seconds.

No this is the flyover jet. No question. He definitely is not describing the C-130.

But I think he saw it on the northeastern edge of the parking lot or possible on either side of those red lines.



Maybe even in the loop/circular portion of the parking lot.

I love it. I thought of that too. But remember,the building probably rocked for a minute and he braced himself/stood there to figure out what was going on, then ran out. So possibly 3-5 seconds? 2 seconds even? 22205 made a good point that the internal explosions could have started before the plane approached the building as well.

Have you been following Barbara Honegger's research about those explosions prior to the main external explosion? Here is a short presentation, which I'm sure you have seen. Very interesting stuff though. I haven't heard much about this since her "Pentagon Attack Papers."
Barbara Honegger

Have you been following Barbara Honegger's research about those explosions prior to the main external explosion? Here is a short presentation, which I'm sure you have seen. Very interesting stuff though. I haven't heard much about this since her "Pentagon Attack Papers."
Barbara Honegger

Yes but she also has some questionable things as well. I am not sure what to think of her papers. I don't buy the 9:32 time.

Have you been following Barbara Honegger's research about those explosions prior to the main external explosion? Here is a short presentation, which I'm sure you have seen. Very interesting stuff though. I haven't heard much about this since her "Pentagon Attack Papers."
Barbara Honegger

Yes but she also has some questionable things as well. I am not sure what to think of her papers. I don't buy the 9:32 time.

Yeah, I have wondered why those explosions wouldn't have caused an evacuation. If the Pentagon were evacuated, as it should have been, there would be potentially thousands of flyover witnesses.