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Title: The Englands & The Moorish Science Temple of America
Description: Split from "Your Thoughts..." thread


Winkhorst - March 26, 2010 12:46 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Craig Ranke CIT @ Jul 21 2009, 08:01 AM)
Courtesy of 22205:

QUOTE

loyde england officially changed his name less than a month prior to 9/11:
user posted image

user posted image



a name he's had for over 70 years, changed within weeks of 9/11/2001, coincedence right?
but then his wife officially changed her's less than 4 days (2 business days) prior to 9/11.

first an example establishing his wife's name:
user posted image

and here on 9/7/2001, she changed her name back to what it had been in 2004:
user posted image



Lloyde told me he was not married to Shirley on 9/11 and she admitted she was living somewhere else at the time.

The fact that BOTH of them had legal name changes days prior to the event is most definitely a suspicious coincidence.


I'm surprised no one has picked up on this, as far as I can see (I searched the site), but the addition of the surname suffixes "-El" and "-Bey" would indicate membership in the Moorish Science Temple of America. See the Wikipedia article, which is reasonably coherent. A faction of the MSTA eventually evolved into the Black Muslims, though the original group still exists. According to Wikipedia, some of the influences on MSTA were Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Freemasonry, Gnosticism and Taoism.

The FBI ran a surveillance program on the MSTA during WWII. They were suspected of collaborating with Japan!

There currently exists a temple in, you guessed it, Washington, DC, with something like 200 members.

I originally ran into references to the group while researching the Moorish Orthodox Church in relation to the Ong's Hat alternate reality hoax.

Does this relate to the David Icke book? I don't know. It does indicate a readiness to accept fairly off-the-wall theories. The MSTA, for example, sees the American black man as a descendant of the Moors, and there are even strands of the doctrine that see them as the original American Indians.

By the way, I'm new here. "Winkhorst" is from the novels of William Burroughs. You can find me at Lordbalto.com

A. Marquis - March 26, 2010 12:59 AM (GMT)
Welcome Winkhorst! Thank you for your insight. I am sure many would like to comment on this.

He was also part of a "police motorcycle club" called the "Blue Knights". The belt buckle he was wearing indicated this. Not that it matters, but is additional insight into his club memberships.

A. Marquis - April 2, 2010 05:06 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Winkhorst @ Mar 26 2010, 12:46 AM)
I'm surprised no one has picked up on this, as far as I can see (I searched the site), but the addition of the surname suffixes "-El" and "-Bey" would indicate membership in the Moorish Science Temple of America. See the Wikipedia article, which is reasonably coherent. A faction of the MSTA eventually evolved into the Black Muslims, though the original group still exists. According to Wikipedia, some of the influences on MSTA were Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Freemasonry, Gnosticism and Taoism.



user posted image
user posted image

Yeah wow, so it appears that perhaps he and his wife are part of the Moorish Science Temple. See the El and the Bey name change right before 9/11 above. That is probably a big connection in all of this. What's interesting is the Freemasonry and One World Religion aspect of their influences.


QUOTE
The Moorish Science Temple of America is an American religious organization founded in the early 20th-century claiming to be a sect of Islam but having equal influences in Buddhism, Christianity, Freemasonry, Gnosticism and Taoism.

[...]

They added the suffixes Bey or El to their surnames, to signify Moorish heritage as well as their taking on the new life of claiming their identity as Moorish Americans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moorish_Scien...mple_of_America


I wonder if the other black guy on the scene has any affiliation.

Winkhorst - April 2, 2010 09:04 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (A. Marquis @ Apr 2 2010, 09:06 AM)
QUOTE (Winkhorst @ Mar 26 2010, 12:46 AM)
I'm surprised no one has picked up on this, as far as I can see (I searched the site), but the addition of the surname suffixes "-El" and "-Bey" would indicate membership in the Moorish Science Temple of America. See the Wikipedia article, which is reasonably coherent. A faction of the MSTA eventually evolved into the Black Muslims, though the original group still exists. According to Wikipedia, some of the influences on MSTA were Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Freemasonry, Gnosticism and Taoism.



user posted image
user posted image

Yeah wow, so it appears that perhaps he and his wife are part of the Moorish Science Temple. See the El and the Bey name change right before 9/11 above. That is probably a big connection in all of this. What's interesting is the Freemasonry and One World Religion aspect of their influences.


QUOTE
The Moorish Science Temple of America is an American religious organization founded in the early 20th-century claiming to be a sect of Islam but having equal influences in Buddhism, Christianity, Freemasonry, Gnosticism and Taoism.

[...]

They added the suffixes Bey or El to their surnames, to signify Moorish heritage as well as their taking on the new life of claiming their identity as Moorish Americans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moorish_Scien...mple_of_America


I wonder if the other black guy on the scene has any affiliation.

I don't want to make more of this than it really is. Obviously, anybody has a right to belong to any religion he wants. It does tend to explain a few random points, though. For example, I seem to recall someone on another thread mentioning that Lloyde was "studying" something in regard to the Icke book. Perhaps he was studying the doctrines of the Moorish Temple in preparation for his initiation rather than anything involving Icke.

By the way, you can watch some random Moorish services and talks on YouTube, as well as the rantings and ravings of someone calling himself "General Seti," who is extremely anti-Moorish and whose favorite adjective is M-F. Be warned...

I should point out that the article on Wikipedia that traces the so-called Moorish Orthodox Church to Noble Drew Ali (Timothy Drew), the founder of the Moorish Science Temple, is most likely at least partially if not completely fictional and is an outgrowth of the Ong's Hat hoax. Hakim Bey is, however, real, and is a pseudonym for Peter Lamborn Wilson. Wilson's basic concept was the "temporary autonomous zone," a concept he shared with William Burroughs. "Bey" had a Pacifica radio show out of WBAI in New York called The Moorish Orthodox Radio Crusade that has now degenerated, under Bill Weinberg, into a liberal oriented Near Eastern and African musical and political show. (He once interviewed the foreign minister of "Somaliland.") The show is billed as "Anarchism for the Global City. Radical Environmentalism for the Concrete Jungle. Esoteric Explorations of the Secret History of Rebel Culture," yet Weinberg is almost rabidly anti- "conspiracy theory," which he continues to claim has been "debunked."

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but I have to wonder if Lloyde wasn't chosen precisely because he would create so many questions about what happened, and feed so many wild theories, that he would divert attention from the actual flyover and demolition.


Ligon - April 2, 2010 09:39 PM (GMT)
It seems that Lloyde actually was not reading that David Icke book. Craig asked him about it and it was clear that he didn't have any idea what the book was about except a general notion that it had something to do with (so-called) conspiracy theories. It was probably a prop.

See the video recording of the conversation here (should skip to 2m38s):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zE4hBq8JE0#t=2m38s

If you've never watched that full video that this clip was taken from though (Lloyde England & His Taxi Cab: The Eye of the Storm) it's a must-see.
http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/vi...ofthestorm.html

Craig Ranke CIT - April 2, 2010 09:46 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Winkhorst @ Apr 2 2010, 09:04 PM)


Sorry to go off on a tangent, but I have to wonder if Lloyde wasn't chosen precisely because he would create so many questions about what happened, and feed so many wild theories, that he would divert attention from the actual flyover and demolition.

When I asked Lloyde about the Icke book he was unable to cite a single thing from it.

I highly doubt he ever read it.

Realize too that it was not included as a part of any official propaganda.

It was only discovered after his wife brought out those private photos of the cab for us to look at (and take pictures of).

My personal feeling is that it was left there to linger and be "discovered" by people like us solely as a means to make official story skeptics (i.e. "conspiracy theorists") sympathetic to Lloyde.

I think this is why he overtly questioned the size of the hole at the Pentagon as well.

However I highly doubt it has any connections to his apparent Moorish beliefs. I bet that was NOT meant to be uncovered at all and I wouldn't be surprised if his involvement with the operation and this sect that has Freemasonic influence isn't a coincidence.

It's definitely a VERY interesting revelation so thanks a lot for pointing that out.

Lloyde made comments when talking about how our time on earth is limited that indicated to me that he didn't believe in God. I'm not sure how that plays into his apparent involvement in this sect or even if he was being honest but I just figured I'd note it.

Winkhorst - April 3, 2010 12:20 AM (GMT)
Thanks. And thanks for pointing out that Lloyde had no idea what was in the Icke book.

I really don't know what the Moor business means. I just happened to run into it when researching the Ong's Hat story and thought I'd point it out. My gut impression is that someone was infiltrating someone. I just don't know who was spying on whom.

QUOTE
Lloyde made comments when talking about how our time on earth is limited that indicated to me that he didn't believe in God. I'm not sure how that plays into his apparent involvement in this sect or even if he was being honest but I just figured I'd note it.


This would tend to suggest that Lloyde became a Moor because his future wife was one. Which says something about the flexibility of his outlook. Think about that in terms of his attempts to mold his story to your own research.

Craig Ranke CIT - April 3, 2010 01:06 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Winkhorst @ Apr 3 2010, 12:20 AM)


This would tend to suggest that Lloyde became a Moor because his future wife was one. Which says something about the flexibility of his outlook. Think about that in terms of his attempts to mold his story to your own research.

I suppose but it's pretty impossible to get in the mind of someone who has been proven by the evidence to be an accomplice to mass murder.

What's clear is that we will never know the full story behind Lloyde England and his involvement with the 9/11 black operation let alone intricate details of his psychological profile.

Winkhorst - April 18, 2010 01:28 AM (GMT)
QUOTE
Seeing the obvious hypnosis trigger image of the book cover on the front seat of his cab and hearing him tell of attending mysterious conspiracy classes that he can hardly remember was about, well it is all just too obvious..


I just ran into this on another thread, and it seems to reinforce my previous suspicion:

QUOTE
For example, I seem to recall someone on another thread mentioning that Lloyde was "studying" something in regard to the Icke book. Perhaps he was studying the doctrines of the Moorish Temple in preparation for his initiation rather than anything involving Icke.


The interesting thing here is that either Lloyde doesn't associate his studies with joining the Moorish Temple or he is trying to hide the fact. I should reiterate here that the material on YouTube suggests an organization that is not completely synchronized with what is generally regarded as consensus reality, whether or not it has anything to do with the self-confessed "son of God," David Icke. I would strongly suggest that anyone interested in Lloyde should watch some of the Moorish temple related videos on YouTube before throwing out theories about Masons and syncretic world religions. The Moorish Temple has a very specific history and a well-developed doctrine that does not appear to relate to any of the global conspiracies posited by some as explanations of 911, at least as far as I can see. There is, in fact, a fairly strong and quite specific identification by at least some of the higher-ups in this religion with Islam--there are numerous instances in some of the videos where someone will blurt out "Islam!" as if it were some kind of magical formula, not totally different from similar spontaneous exclamations in more orthodox African-American Christian services.

So, I would suggest that, in the absence of any indication on Lloyde's part that he was studying to join the Moorish Temple, his references to "conspiracy classes" actually refer to those Moorish classes and that he either didn't take them terribly seriously, OR he was in a less than lucid state of mind during those classes where he could have been "influenced" to do things he wouldn't normally tend to do. And we shouldn't disregard out of hand the possibility that someone in the Moorish Temple sees some connection between Icke and his own religious persuasion, whether Lloyde recognized it or not.

That's about all I can extract from this at present. Any feedback would be appreciated.

m reed - April 18, 2010 03:16 AM (GMT)
Lloyd is an operative, plain and simple.

22205 - April 19, 2010 08:04 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (A. Marquis @ Mar 25 2010, 08:59 PM)
...He was also part of a "police motorcycle club" called the "Blue Knights". The belt buckle he was wearing indicated this. Not that it matters, but is additional insight into his club memberships.

do u by chance have a pic of that belt buckle? i remember seeing it back in the day..

A. Marquis - April 19, 2010 08:14 PM (GMT)
Maybe this one?

user posted image

22205 - April 19, 2010 09:04 PM (GMT)
maybe... but i seem to remember a big star displayed on the buckle, and i swear u guys had a pic of him wearing it, but it was so long ago my memory maybe incorrect.

:unsure:


22205 - April 19, 2010 09:11 PM (GMT)
user posted image

-its interesting that his wife went from being a "bey" to NOT being a "bey" for a stretch of years, then went back to being one again a few days prior to 9/11. i was able to find more instances (or further proof of) the moorish followers changing or adding "el" or "bey" to their names (some links below), but i found nothing about them changing them back to their former names. so i was wondering what your thoughts might be on that winkhorst.

QUOTE (Winkhorst @ Apr 2 2010, 08:20 PM)
...This would tend to suggest that Lloyde became a Moor because his future wife was one...


also, given the date of the couples' name changes, it would seem that she changed her name because of him (tho appearances can certainly be deceptive), not the other way around, since she was NOT a "bey" during her initial years with mr.england, and he changed his name (to a moorish temple name "el") first.




some links:
http://mstofastudygroupga.com/History.html
QUOTE
Finally by 1928, The Moorish Science Temple of America, Inc. was an established fact. It is believed that this procedure of elevating the movement to the Moorish Science Temple of America, Inc. from the Canaanite Temple in phases was to prepare the people for this great "new thought" movement; entirely different from the churches they had been used to. With the incorporation came a new charter, Divine Constitution and By Laws consisting of seven acts. There also follows seven additional laws to strengthen the guidelines for better cohesion in the organization. The object of our organization is to help in the great program of uplifting fallen humanity and teach those things necessary to make our members better citizens. The Moorish Movement is still alive today. There are many small temples all over America still following the great teachings of Prophet Nobel Drew Ali. The star and crescent, fezzes, turban, membership card, button, Moorish Flag, and the correction of "El" or "Bey" to the surname signify Moorish identity.



check their facebook fans here, more confirmation of the "El" and "Bey" names amongst the followers:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Moorish-...ca/254137792639


Winkhorst - June 7, 2010 12:35 AM (GMT)
Sorry for the delay. I must have missed the email notification.

I completely missed the fact that Lloyde's wife changed her name back. It's hard to say what's going on here. But no, I haven't seen anything about reverse name changes either.

What I did notice surfing around is that Icke's site has Google pointers to Moorish Science followers posting on their forum. I didn't bother to go through the signup process at the time, but it might be interesting to do so and see where this is all drifting. I have already mentioned I suspected the book might have been connected in some way. The fact that Lloyde claimed he hadn't read it doesn't mean he didn't get it through the Moorish Temple. Short of a prop, how else does someone like Lloyde come into possession of something that far beyond the mainstream?

I don't know how relevant this is, but I might point out that the logic of the "Moorish" identity goes back to the fact that Morocco was the first country to recognize the United States. There was a quid pro quo in which, I believe, Jefferson agreed not to allow Moors to be held as slaves. Hence the MST's insistence that they are not really the descendants of slaves.

On another tangent, I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere, but can anyone tell me how it is that the whole lightpole through the window incident could possibly have happened on a crowded highway, with the cab spinning around, without a major collision event and traffic jam? Does this not just shout "staged event"? And certainly, if it really happened in the real world, there should be multiple witnesses to it, which, I gather, there are not.

Craig Ranke CIT - June 7, 2010 04:55 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Winkhorst @ Jun 7 2010, 12:35 AM)


On another tangent, I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere, but can anyone tell me how it is that the whole lightpole through the window incident could possibly have happened on a crowded highway, with the cab spinning around, without a major collision event and traffic jam? Does this not just shout "staged event"? And certainly, if it really happened in the real world, there should be multiple witnesses to it, which, I gather, there are not.

It's true that there are no witnesses who report seeing a light pole spear the cab and the cab spin out on the road with a 35 ft light pole still in it.

It's also true that the witnesses prove the plane was nowhere near the light pole.

Ligon - June 7, 2010 04:59 AM (GMT)
Nor did anyone see Lloyde and the alleged silent stranger (who he originally said was his "friend") removing the pole as Lloyde claims.

Nor are there any pictures of the pole in Lloyde's cab or being removed from Lloyde's cab even though there were pictures taken shortly after the explosion.

Winkhorst - June 8, 2010 12:05 AM (GMT)
Ligon said:
QUOTE
Nor did anyone see Lloyde and the alleged silent stranger (who he originally said was his "friend") removing the pole as Lloyde claims.

Nor are there any pictures of the pole in Lloyde's cab or being removed from Lloyde's cab even though there were pictures taken shortly after the explosion.


Lloyde originally said the other guy was his friend? Was he suggesting the other guy was in his cab at the time? Or was he saying his friend just happened to be there? That would be almost as coincidental as Lloyde's cab getting stuck with the light pole in the first place.

I guess what annoys me the most is, it's so blatant. And yet the official media acts like it's perfectly reasonable. It never occurs to them to even question the rationality of it. And yes, Craig, I realize the witnesses don't place the plane anywhere near where it could have done what it's supposed to have done. It's enough to make me grind my teeth.

Ligon - June 10, 2010 04:32 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Winkhorst @ Jun 7 2010, 04:05 PM)
QUOTE (Ligon)
Nor did anyone see Lloyde and the alleged silent stranger (who he originally said was his "friend") removing the pole as Lloyde claims.

Nor are there any pictures of the pole in Lloyde's cab or being removed from Lloyde's cab even though there were pictures taken shortly after the explosion.


Lloyde originally said the other guy was his friend? Was he suggesting the other guy was in his cab at the time? Or was he saying his friend just happened to be there? That would be almost as coincidental as Lloyde's cab getting stuck with the light pole in the first place.

I created a new thread to answer your questions in detail:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=1277

Winkhorst - June 11, 2010 12:57 AM (GMT)
Thanks.

I'll reply to you there.

Craig Ranke CIT - June 13, 2010 03:27 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Jun 13 2010, 12:12 PM)
I noticed [in this thread thread] that

QUOTE
after 40 years he is widowed


Sorry if this has been covered (I must read this thread through), but was the lady in the video his second wife?

Yes.

He didn't marry her until after 9/11. He expressed to me that he misses his late wife and basically said that he married Shirley because she didn't drink or smoke so he had no reason not to!

onesliceshort - June 13, 2010 03:55 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Craig Ranke CIT @ Jun 13 2010, 07:27 AM)
QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Jun 13 2010, 12:12 PM)

Sorry if this has been covered (I must read this thread through), but was the lady in the video his second wife?

Yes.

He didn't marry her until after 9/11. He expressed to me that he misses his late wife and basically said that he married Shirley because she didn't drink or smoke so he had no reason not to!

:D

Good Moorish reasoning there (knowing a few from the area I'm living in)

onesliceshort - June 13, 2010 04:14 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
During her extensive research in the archives she discovered documents which convinced her that America was discovered a long time before Columbus by Arab-andalusian or Moroccan sailors trading with ports in Brazil, Guayana and Venezuela and she published her views in No fuimos nosotros (It wasn't us) und África versus América.




I actually met this woman. Her story is crazy man.
A member of the Spanish Royal family who was a lesbian (married and left all her money and land to her wife) and a socialist!
She had a crazy amount of controversial documents dating back to the time when Spain was owned by the Moors.
She claimed to have documents that made the whole history of Spain a falsehood and that the Royal family of Spain is directly descended from Moor blood.
The Spanish Inquisition was used to eliminate all traces of this ancestry or anybody who new of the links.
Thing is, the present King, Juan Carlos is said to be the honorary head of the Knights of Malta (if my memory serves me correct - I'm rusty on the Masons)
He is a regular feature of the Bilderberg group.
The Moors have had an extensive influence/bloodline on the present day royal families of Europe and I guess that would extend to the US as well.
Sorry for dumping all of this unsourced info. Just going by memory.
The Moor connection isn't as trivial as first appears.

Winkhorst - June 13, 2010 04:20 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Jun 13 2010, 07:55 AM)
QUOTE (Craig Ranke CIT @ Jun 13 2010, 07:27 AM)
QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Jun 13 2010, 12:12 PM)

Sorry if this has been covered (I must read this thread through), but was the lady in the video his second wife?

Yes.

He didn't marry her until after 9/11. He expressed to me that he misses his late wife and basically said that he married Shirley because she didn't drink or smoke so he had no reason not to!

:D

Good Moorish reasoning there (knowing a few from the area I'm living in)

Indeed. From what I have read (I'm no expert), there is a major emphasis on being a good citizen, an emphasis that has existed from the beginning.

Then again, Lloyde may have been exhibiting a rather dry sense of humor. It seems to me some folks don't give him due credit for being an intelligent human being capable of crafting his responses to the situation.

Winkhorst - June 13, 2010 04:54 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Jun 13 2010, 08:14 AM)
On the subject of Moors..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luisa_Isabel_..._Medina_Sidonia

QUOTE
During her extensive research in the archives she discovered documents which convinced her that America was discovered a long time before Columbus by Arab-andalusian or Moroccan sailors trading with ports in Brazil, Guayana and Venezuela and she published her views in No fuimos nosotros (It wasn't us) und África versus América.




I actually met this woman. Her story is crazy man.
A member of the Spanish Royal family who was a lesbian (married and left all her money and land to her wife) and a socialist!
She had a crazy amount of controversial documents dating back to the time when Spain was owned by the Moors.
She claimed to have documents that made the whole history of Spain a falsehood and that the Royal family of Spain is directly descended from Moor blood.
The Spanish Inquisition was used to eliminate all traces of this ancestry or anybody who new of the links.
Thing is, the present King, Juan Carlos is said to be the honorary head of the Knights of Malta (if my memory serves me correct - I'm rusty on the Masons)
He is a regular feature of the Bilderberg group.
The Moors have had an extensive influence/bloodline on the present day royal families of Europe and I guess that would extend to the US as well.
Sorry for dumping all of this unsourced info. Just going by memory.
The Moor connection isn't as trivial as first appears.

I, for one, do not take the Moorish connection to be trivial.

And yes, the Inquisition was a turning point in world history, or rather the telling of world history. My own family goes back to pre-inquisition Spain and Portugal, from which they fled to Eastern Europe. Much that was known during Moorish rule was obliterated from the record after they were driven out.

As for Moors in America, I have no trouble taking that seriously either. There is actually fairly strong evidence that America was known and mined from at least the time of Sargon the Great (24rd Century BC) and perhaps as early as the beginning of the Bronze Age. By some estimates, half a BILLION pounds of copper were taken out of northern Michigan from circa 3000 to circa 1200 BC, before iron became the metal of choice sometime around the time of the Trojan War.

That being said, some of the doctrines of the Moorish Science Temple are clearly wishful thinking. And whether the actions of Lloyde England on 9/11 had anything to do with his affiliation with the MST remains an open question. It should also be kept in mind that there are splinter groups of the MST that also use the -el and -bey suffixes to their names. In particular, the so-called 5-Percenters, whose perspective is not all that different from that of David Icke, that is, most people are sheep being led around by the nose. I would not expect a member of the MST to be reading Icke, whether Lloyde claimed not to know what Icke was about or not. I would, however, expect someone involved with the splinter groups to be interested in Icke.

Winkhorst - March 7, 2011 01:17 AM (GMT)
Craig,

Just reading your attempt at a discussion of Lloyde's taxi at the Randi forum. Those guys are jackals with no interest in anything but demonstrating their own ignorance and stupidity. Apparently being a "skeptic" entails not believing anything that isn't sanctioned by the U.S. government.

22205 - December 26, 2011 06:46 PM (GMT)
during some recent research, i ran into another moorish temple member, and wanted to add it here-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_Rodney_Hampton-El
QUOTE
Clement Rodney Hampton-El, also known as Dr. Rashid, had been a member of the Moorish Science Temple of America was convicted in the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993.
QUOTE

Frankenstein the CIA created

Mujahideen trained and funded by the US are among its deadliest foes, reports Jason Burke in Peshawar

guardian.co.uk, Sunday 17 January 1999

When Clement Rodney Hampton-el, a hospital technician from Brooklyn, New Jersey, returned home from the war in Afghanistan in 1989, he told friends his only desire was to return. Though he had been wounded in the arm and leg by a Russian shell, he said he had failed. He had not achieved martyrdom in the name of Islam.

So he found a different theatre for his holy war and achieved a different sort of martyrdom. Three years ago, he was convicted of planning a series of massive explosions in Manhattan and sentenced to 35 years in prison.

Hampton-el was described by prosecutors as a skilled bomb-maker. It was hardly surprising. In Afghanistan he fought with the Hezb-i-Islami group of mujahideen, whose training and weaponry were mainly supplied by the CIA.

He was not alone. American officials estimate that, from 1985 to 1992, 12,500 foreigners were trained in bomb-making, sabotage and urban guerrilla warfare in Afghan camps the CIA helped to set up.

Since the fall of the Soviet puppet government in 1992, another 2,500 are believed to have passed through the camps. They are now run by an assortment of Islamic extremists, including Osama bin Laden, the world's most wanted terrorist.

Bin Laden arrived in Afghanistan from Saudi Arabia in 1979, aged 22. Though he saw a considerable amount of combat - around the eastern city of Jalalabad in March 1989 and, earlier, around the border town of Khost - his speciality was logistics.

From his base in the Pakistani city of Peshawar, he used his experience of the construction trade, and his money, to build a series of bases where the mujahideen could be trained by their Pakistani, American and, if some recent press reports are to be believed, British advisers.

One of the camps bin Laden built, known as Al-Badr, was the target of the American missile strikes against him last summer. Now it is used by Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, a Pakistan-based organisation that trains volunteers to fight in Kashmir.

Some of their recruits kidnapped and almost certainly killed a group of Western hostages a few years ago. The bases are still full of new volunteers, many
Pakistanis. Most of those who were killed in last August's strikes were Pakistani.

A Harkut-ul-Mujahideen official said last week that it had Germans and Britons fighting for the cause, as well as Egyptians, Palestinians and Saudis. Muslims from the West as well as from the Middle East and North Africa are regularly stopped by Pakistani police on the road up the Khyber Pass heading for the camps. Hundreds get through. Afghan veterans have now joined bin Laden's al-Qaeda group.

Some have returned to former battlegrounds, like the university-educated Dr Ayman al-Zawahiri, a key figure in the Egyptian al-Jihad terrorist group. Al-Zawahiri ran his own operation during the Afghan war, bringing in and training volunteers from the Middle East. Some of the $500 million the CIA poured into Afghanistan reached his group. Al-Zawahiri has become a close aide of bin Laden and has now returned to Afghanistan to work with him. His al-Jihad group has been linked to the Yemeni kidnappers.

One Saudi journalist who interviewed bin Laden in 1989 remembers three of his close associates going under the names of Abu Mohammed, Abu Hafz and Abu Ahmed. All three fought with bin Laden in the early Eighties, travelled with him to the Sudan and have come back to Afghanistan. Afghan veterans, believed to include men who fought the Americans in Somalia, have also returned.

Other members of al-Quaeda remain overseas. Afghan veterans now linked to bin Laden have been traced by investigators to Pakistan, East Africa, Albania, Chechnya, Algeria, France, the US and Britain.

At least one of the kidnappers in Yemen was reported to have fought in Afghanistan and to be linked to al-Quaeda. Despite reports that bin Laden was effectively funded by the Americans, it is impossible to gauge how much American aid he received. He was not a major figure in the Afghan war. Most American weapons, including Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, were channelled by the Pakistanis to the Hezb-i-Islami faction of the mujahideen led by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar.

Bin Laden was only loosely connected with the group, serving under another Hezb-i-Islami commander known as Engineer Machmud. However, bin Laden's Office of Services, set up to recruit overseas for the war, received some US cash.
But according to one American official, concentrating on bin Laden is a mistake. 'The point is not the individuals,' he said last week. 'The point is that we created a whole cadre of trained and motivated people who turned against us. It's a classic Frankenstein's monster situation.'

Others point out that the military contribution of the 'Arabs', as the overseas volunteers were known, was relatively small. 'The fighting was done by the Afghans and most of them went back to their fields when Kabul fell to the mujahideen,' said Kamaal Khan, a Pakistani defence analyst. 'Ironically, the bulk of American aid went to the least effective fighters, who turned most strongly to bite the hand that fed them.'
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But other anti-terrorist specialists noted the absence of a previous arrest record for Mr. Hampton-El, and added that his alleged involvement in the bomb plot had little of the secrecy and relative efficiency attributed to suspected Fuqra militants. "There are bits and pieces you have to wonder about," said Brian Jenkins, an anti-terrorism specialist with Kroll Associates. "But this field lends itself to leaping to vast conspiracies and it's best to be a little bit careful until ties are developed."

Few of Mr. Hampton-El's friends and neighbors said they knew of Fuqra, and those who did said it was known mainly for the sort of civic works -- policing and cleaning the streets, protecting project corridors and courtyards --- that Mr. Hampton-El made his calling in rallying residents and practicing Ninja martial arts. "There's a certain hysteria being created," complained Jitu Weusi, an official of the United Black Front in Brooklyn, who said Fuqra exists but its deeds have been misunderstood and exaggerated.

Mr. Hampton-El, who is also known as Abdul Rashid Abdullah, is a Sunni Muslim whose family were pioneers in the 20th century's Black Muslim movement as members of the Moorish Science Temple, said Mr. Dannin. Afghan Leader Assailed West.

Mr. Hampton-El's route to the Afghan war was as a member of the Hezb-I-Islami guerrilla group. It was led by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, a sharp critic of the West who nevertheless received much of the money and arms channeled to the war by United States intelligence sources to feed the forces opposed to the Soviet Union there. This group was chosen by scores of Islamic volunteers from the metropolitan region, and one line of investigation is whether Mr. Hampton-El might have met some of the other suspects through combat overseas and become interested in a new jihad directed against secular governments like the United States.
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Clement Rodney Hampton-El

Raised in impoverished circumstances, Hampton-El had been a member of the Moorish Science Temple—a predominantly African-American religious sect—before converting to orthodox Sunni Islam and adopting the name Abdul Rashid Abdullah. Hampton-El was also reportedly a member of Jama`at al-Fuqara’[12], an extremist sect whose U.S. branch was founded in 1980 by Mubarak Ali Shah Gilani, a Pakistani Sufi cleric and supporter of Islamist militancy in Indian-occupied Kashmir. By the late 1980s, Jama`at al-Fuqara’ (also known later as Muslims of the Americas) was allegedly acquiring weapons and recruiting fighters for Afghanistan.[13]

Hampton-El joined the Afghan jihad, reportedly serving as a medic with Gulbuddin Hekmatyar’s Hizb-i-Islami mujahidin force.[14] Wounded by a Russian shell, he returned to New York in late 1988 to recuperate. For Hampton-El, also known as “Dr. Rashid” for his work with the mujahidin and his later employment as a hospital technician, Afghanistan was a transformative experience. “The war was a life-force experience that he dearly wanted to return to…so he could have another chance at martyrdom and paradise,” according to one press account.[15]
He never returned to Afghanistan. Instead, he became a significant figure at the al-Kifah Refugee Center in New York, a branch of al-Qa`ida’s international fundraising and support network. During the early 1990s, “Dr. Rashid” trained prospective jihadists and smuggled funds into the United States as part of “Project Bosnia,”[16] an effort to recruit, support and prepare militants for Bosnia. A member of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing conspiracy, Hampton-El was convicted in 1996 with the “blind shaykh,” `Umar `Abd al-Rahman, and others in connection with the “Day of Terror” plot against New York City landmarks.
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Clement Rodney Hampton - Dr. Rashid.

Clement Rodney Hampton is an American born in 1938 to Christian parents members of the Moorish Science Temple. He joined USA army in 1957.

After his release from the army Clement Rodney Hampton found a job in New Jersey hospital as a technician and worked there, with breaks, nearly 30 years. In 1967 Clement Rodney Hampton converted to Islam. In 1988 he went to fight in Afghanistan, through “Al Kifah” arrangements in Al Farook Mosque in Brooklyn. He served in Afghanistan as battlefield medic and got therefore the nick name Dr. Rashid. Clement Rodney Hampton was wounded there.

In 07/1989 Clement Rodney Hampton was filmed by FBI agents shooting weapons at the Calverton Shooting Range, on Long Island, New York. The group that included Mahmud Abuhalima, El Sayyid Nosair , Nidal Ayyad and Mohammed Salameh was secretly monitored as they shot AK-47 assault rifles and semiautomatic handguns.

There is also evidence that Clement Rodney Hampton associated with the radical Islamic group - “Jamaat al-fukra” in Tucson, Texas. When the blind Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman became the Imam of Al Farook Mosque in 1991 Clement Rodney Hampton was one of his close assistants.

In the early 90ies Clement Rodney Hampton developed business relations with Saudi Arabia and had constant relations with the Saudi embassy in Washington. There is also some evidence that he served as an informant for the Saudis.
Clement Rodney Hampton traveled also several times to Europe and the Philippines in purpose to transfer money from wealthy Saudi donors to Bosnia and for different Muslim activities in USA. In one of his trips to the Philippines in 05/1993 he got acquainted with one of Al Qaeda financiers at that time - Mohammed Jamal Khalifa.

After the attack on WTC on 02/26/1993 the Al Farook Mosque was put under surveillance. On 06/24/1993 FBI foiled a mega “ Day of Terror ” plot by arresting 5 members of Al Farook Mosque cell in a warehouse in New Jersey while mixing fertilizer and fuel oil for their bombs. Investigation revealed that Clement Rodney Hampton was the buyer and supplier of the necessary materials and he was arrested the next day with the blind Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman.

On 10/1995 Clement Rodney Hampton was convicted for his part in the “ Day of Terror ” plot and sentenced to 35 years in jail. Clement Rodney Hampton is today (02/2007) in Supermax prison in Florence, Colorado.

Winkhorst - November 12, 2012 08:46 PM (GMT)
The case of Clement Rodney Hampton is interesting in that it expresses a certain dissonance with the original reason for establishing the Moorish Science Temple. The Temple was established, as far as I can tell, in order to create a kind of national identity myth for African-Americans in which their presence in America did not result from slavery, but from a much nobler history of exploration and conquest. In this regard, the Moslem aspect of the religion is quite superficial, their "Moorish" nationality being of much more importance.

I should also reiterate that there are splinter groups of the original organization. Do we know for a fact that Hampton belonged to the "mother church," so to speak, and not to a splinter group? Again, one of Drew's original main tenets was good citizenship. I can much more easily see Lloyde England expressing this kind of good citizenship, no matter how twisted, working with the military on 9/11 than Clement Hampton expressing its opposite by trying to blow up the World Trade Center.




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